RE: Nested links (not related to children presentational issue in ARIA 1.1)

What about the accessible name calculation?

When accessible name comes from content, the accessible name of the outer link is the accessible name of the inner link, plus whatever other text content is in there.

If aria-label is put on the outer link (overrides accessible name from content), that would effectively remove the accessible name for the inner link.

I have witnessed the contets of entire webpages hidden from screen reader users because of improper nesting of focusable elements.

A common problem is when authors put role=”tab” on tabpenel content. When that content contains interactive elements such as links and form fields, a screen reader user is no longer able to operate those.

I can’t speak for SVG, because it is a different beast from HTML, but I would be highly concerned if the ARIA spec started allowing practices that are

*       forbidden by HTML

*       violate a WCAG success criterion, 

*       are only operable because browsers correct the code the best way they know how (since the standard does not allow it in the first place, the way browsers address the problem can change from one browser or version to the next).

 

From: Fred Esch [mailto:fesch@us.ibm.com] 
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 11:39 AM
To: Marco Zehe <mzehe@mozilla.com>
Cc: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Nested links (not related to children presentational issue in ARIA 1.1)

 

Hi Marco,

The question is should nested links be allowed in SVG? Here is a link to the git issue <https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/26> . If not, why? Do AT have problems with it?...




Regards, 

Fred Esch 
Watson, IBM, W3C Accessibility




Watson Release Management and Quality 



Marco Zehe ---06/23/2016 10:52:43 AM---I did a quick test with the example given, and none of the 3 browsers I tested (Firefox, Chrome, IE

From: Marco Zehe <mzehe@mozilla.com <mailto:mzehe@mozilla.com> >
To: Birkir Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com <mailto:birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com> >
Cc: Shane McCarron <shane@spec-ops.io <mailto:shane@spec-ops.io> >, Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org <mailto:cooper@w3.org> >, Richard Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com> >, Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS, ARIA <public-aria@w3.org <mailto:public-aria@w3.org> >
Date: 06/23/2016 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: Nested links (not related to children presentational issue in ARIA 1.1)

  _____  




I did a quick test with the example given, and none of the 3 browsers I tested (Firefox, Chrome, IE 11) actually nest the links. They simply consider the two links separate entities at the same level, considering the second opening a tag the closure of the previous, and ignoring the final closing one. There are two accessible objects, and they are not nested.

So in my opinion, there is no indication that browsers, at least on Windows, support nested links, they just make one believe so by accounting for such obvious author error. So I don't see why we should allow or even vote for nested links. As was put forward by Shane, nestee links even violate the HTML 5.1 specification. So nothing to duplicate, other than the parser accounting for the same nesting error and separating them out into separate links at the same level.

Marco


2016-06-23 16:15 GMT+02:00 Birkir Gunnarsson < <mailto:birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com> birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com>:

Agreed, this constitutes a WCAG 4.1.1 violation for HTML:

“elements are nested according to their specifications”

The HTML Nu Validator  <https://validator.w3.org/nu/> https://validator.w3.org/nu/

returns 2 errors for a nested link construct.

<a href= <http://www.apple.com/> http://www.apple.com>Apple

<a href=” <http://www.google.com/> http://www.google.com”>Google</a>

</a>

“Error: Start tag a seen but an element of the same type was already open.”

And

Error: Stray end tag a.

 

 

 

 

From: Shane McCarron [mailto: <mailto:shane@spec-ops.io> shane@spec-ops.io] 
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 9:58 AM
To: Michael Cooper < <mailto:cooper@w3.org> cooper@w3.org>
Cc: Richard Schwerdtfeger < <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com> richschwer@gmail.com>; Fred Esch < <mailto:fesch@us.ibm.com> fesch@us.ibm.com>; ARIA < <mailto:public-aria@w3.org> public-aria@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Nested links (not related to children presentational issue in ARIA 1.1)

 

 

 

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 8:50 AM, Michael Cooper < <mailto:cooper@w3.org> cooper@w3.org> wrote:

This thread was started on ARIA Admin, but it should be on the main WG list since it's a technical discussion. Attempting to move it with this message. Michael

 

On 23/06/2016 9:47 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:

Nested links work in HTML browsers now. I don’t think they should be prohibited in SVG. The closer we align SVG and HTML the better it will be for developers.  

 

 

No - they are expressly prohibited.  I mean - a browser might support it, but that behavior is undefined and the content is invalid:  <https://www.w3.org/TR/html51/textlevel-semantics.html#elementdef-a> https://www.w3.org/TR/html51/textlevel-semantics.html#elementdef-a

-- 

Shane McCarron

Projects Manager, Spec-Ops