W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-aria@w3.org > January 2016

RE: Issue with ARIA 1.1 regarding which roles include children presentational = true ?

From: Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2016 13:35:56 -0500
Bryan,

Role treeitem should not be children presentational true. A element with
the role treeitem can have children that are semantically important and
should be included in the accessibility tree.


                                                              
     Regards,                                                 
                                                              
    Fred Esch                                                 
 Watson, IBM, W3C                                             
  Accessibility                                               
                                                              
 IBM Watson       Watson Release Management and Quality       
                                                              






From:	Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
To:	Birkir Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com>
Cc:	ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Date:	01/11/2016 10:00 PM
Subject:	RE: Issue with ARIA 1.1 regarding which roles include children
            presentational = true ?



Good question, I'm not sure, would be good to get others opinions about
this.

I'm concerned at which level it should stop making sense, such as embedded
lists, tables, etc. None of that works intuitively in a link for example.

-----Original Message-----
From: Birkir Gunnarsson [mailto:birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 5:34 PM
To: Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
Cc: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Issue with ARIA 1.1 regarding which roles include children
presentational = true ?

Links can include block elements in html5.
Should those elements be ignored when they have a semantic role?
example:
<a href="#"><h2>Foo</h2</a>
Should assistive technologies expose this is an h2 link, or just as a link?


On 1/11/16, Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com> wrote:
> Before I file this as an issue, I wanted to run this by those here in
> case I've got any of the details behind this incorrect.
>
> So, according to the children presentational description at
> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#h-childrenarepresentational
>
> This seemingly means that embedded child roles are not exposed by the
> user agent, but instead a flat labelling mechanism is used instead no
> matter what type of content is contained within these roles. Is that
right?
>
> Currently only the following roles include this property:
> button
> img
> math
> progressbar
> separator
> scrollbar
> slider
>
> So this seems right, a button cannot include children with roles like
> link, slider, region, tablist, textbox, listbox, radio, checkbox,
> etc., because that wouldn't make any sense.
>
> So, with that logic, shouldn't all of the following roles also include
> children presentational = true ?
>
> checkbox
> combobox
> link
> menuitem
> menuitemcheckbox
> menuitemradio
> option
> radio
> searchbox
> spinbutton
> switch
> tab
> textbox
> treeitem
>
> This seems logical, because none of the above roles are 'composite'
> widgets.
> https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#composite
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Senior Accessibility Subject Matter Expert | Deque Systems
2121 Cooperative Way, Suite 210
Herndon, VA, 20171

Ph: (919) 607-27 53
Twitter: @birkir_gun


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<html><body><p>Bryan, <br><br>Role treeitem should not be children presentational true. A element with the role treeitem can have children that are semantically important and should be included in the accessibility tree. <br><br><br><br>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td width="473" colspan="2" valign="middle"><div align="center"><font size="4" face="Verdana">Regards, <br><br>Fred Esch <br>Watson, IBM, W3C Accessibility</font></div></td></tr>
<tr valign="top"><td width="130" valign="middle"><img src="cid:1__=0ABBF5ABDFF0EE818f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@" width="163" height="23" alt="IBM Watson" align="bottom"></td><td width="342" valign="middle"><font size="4" face="Verdana">Watson Release Management and Quality </font></td></tr></table><br><br><img width="16" height="16" src="cid:2__=0ABBF5ABDFF0EE818f9e8a93df938690918c0AB@" border="0" alt="Inactive hide details for Bryan Garaventa ---01/11/2016 10:00:42 PM---Good question, I'm not sure, would be good to get others "><font color="#424282">Bryan Garaventa ---01/11/2016 10:00:42 PM---Good question, I'm not sure, would be good to get others opinions about this. I'm concerned at which</font><br><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">From:        </font><font size="2">Bryan Garaventa &lt;bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com&gt;</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">To:        </font><font size="2">Birkir Gunnarsson &lt;birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com&gt;</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Cc:        </font><font size="2">ARIA Working Group &lt;public-aria@w3.org&gt;</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Date:        </font><font size="2">01/11/2016 10:00 PM</font><br><font size="2" color="#5F5F5F">Subject:        </font><font size="2">RE: Issue with ARIA 1.1 regarding which roles include children  presentational = true ?</font><br><hr width="100%" size="2" align="left" noshade style="color:#8091A5; "><br><br><br><tt>Good question, I'm not sure, would be good to get others opinions about this.<br><br>I'm concerned at which level it should stop making sense, such as embedded lists, tables, etc. None of that works intuitively in a link for example.<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Birkir Gunnarsson [</tt><tt><a href="mailto:birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com">mailto:birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com</a></tt><tt>] <br>Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 5:34 PM<br>To: Bryan Garaventa &lt;bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com&gt;<br>Cc: ARIA Working Group &lt;public-aria@w3.org&gt;<br>Subject: Re: Issue with ARIA 1.1 regarding which roles include children presentational = true ?<br><br>Links can include block elements in html5.<br>Should those elements be ignored when they have a semantic role?<br>example:<br>&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot;&gt;&lt;h2&gt;Foo&lt;/h2&lt;/a&gt;<br>Should assistive technologies expose this is an h2 link, or just as a link?<br><br><br>On 1/11/16, Bryan Garaventa &lt;bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; Before I file this as an issue, I wanted to run this by those here in <br>&gt; case I've got any of the details behind this incorrect.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; So, according to the children presentational description at <br>&gt; </tt><tt><a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#h-childrenarepresentational">http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#h-childrenarepresentational</a></tt><tt><br>&gt;<br>&gt; This seemingly means that embedded child roles are not exposed by the <br>&gt; user agent, but instead a flat labelling mechanism is used instead no <br>&gt; matter what type of content is contained within these roles. Is that right?<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Currently only the following roles include this property:<br>&gt; button<br>&gt; img<br>&gt; math<br>&gt; progressbar<br>&gt; separator<br>&gt; scrollbar<br>&gt; slider<br>&gt;<br>&gt; So this seems right, a button cannot include children with roles like <br>&gt; link, slider, region, tablist, textbox, listbox, radio, checkbox, <br>&gt; etc., because that wouldn't make any sense.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; So, with that logic, shouldn't all of the following roles also include <br>&gt; children presentational = true ?<br>&gt;<br>&gt; checkbox<br>&gt; combobox<br>&gt; link<br>&gt; menuitem<br>&gt; menuitemcheckbox<br>&gt; menuitemradio<br>&gt; option<br>&gt; radio<br>&gt; searchbox<br>&gt; spinbutton<br>&gt; switch<br>&gt; tab<br>&gt; textbox<br>&gt; treeitem<br>&gt;<br>&gt; This seems logical, because none of the above roles are 'composite'<br>&gt; widgets.<br>&gt; </tt><tt><a href="https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#composite">https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#composite</a></tt><tt><br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br><br><br>--<br>Birkir R. Gunnarsson<br>Senior Accessibility Subject Matter Expert | Deque Systems<br>2121 Cooperative Way, Suite 210<br>Herndon, VA, 20171<br><br>Ph: (919) 607-27 53<br>Twitter: @birkir_gun<br></tt><br><BR>
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Received on Tuesday, 12 January 2016 18:39:16 UTC

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