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RE: ARIA roles in WAI-ARIA Graphics Module working draft

From: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 16:11:27 -0600
To: "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
Cc: Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com>, "public-aria@w3.org" <public-aria@w3.org>
Message-ID: <OFEEA6757E.DA196669-ON86257F30.0079DF1F-86257F30.0079E618@us.ibm.com>
We don't have tabindex support in all the browsers for SVG. I would start
with Chrome.


Rich Schwerdtfeger



From:	"Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
To:	Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
Cc:	Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS, "public-aria@w3.org"
            <public-aria@w3.org>
Date:	12/15/2015 04:40 AM
Subject:	RE: ARIA roles in WAI-ARIA Graphics Module working draft



Hi Rich,

>>>   <g tabindex="0" role="button">

Great! Question is if major browser and AT vendors will support that
already by accident or intentionally ... I’ll do some testing J

>>> In the future we will also have roles like: axis, datapoint, etc.

I find that very useful since everybody seems to do chart libs in SVG these
days. Is there already info available which additional roles are projected
(a “chart” roles subchapter in the Graphics Module working draft perhaps)?
We can give extensive feedback here what would be needed.

Best Regards
Stefan

From: Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:schwer@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Montag, 14. Dezember 2015 19:51
To: Schnabel, Stefan <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
Cc: Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com>; public-aria@w3.org
Subject: RE: ARIA roles in WAI-ARIA Graphics Module working draft



Hi Stefan,

SVG is purely 2D Vector graphics as a host language.

Regarding Flash I think you are referring to Flex for which you would have
common interactive components. Adobe Flex is built on top of Flash.

In your example you should probably have:

<g tabindex="0" role="button">

yes, you could do the aria-description route but it would not be
recommended as that is not the normal mapping for a button. I would  not do
that for HTML either.


In the future we will also have roles like: axis, datapoint, etc.

Best,
Rich



Rich Schwerdtfeger

Inactive hide details for "Schnabel, Stefan" ---12/14/2015 07:39:04 AM---Hi
Rich, Many thanks for the quick answer."Schnabel, Stefan" ---12/14/2015
07:39:04 AM---Hi Rich, Many thanks for the quick answer.

From: "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
Cc: Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS, "public-aria@w3.org" <public-aria@w3.org
>
Date: 12/14/2015 07:39 AM
Subject: RE: ARIA roles in WAI-ARIA Graphics Module working draft




Hi Rich,

Many thanks for the quick answer.


>> In SVG 2.0 it is possible to do this as we have added keyboard support.

Shouldn’t SVG2 better undergo a host language approach (such as declaring a
<button> element) since this also defines roles where they belong, as
elements the host language?

I know already well http://www.w3.org/TR/graphics-aria-1.0/


The reason I asked is because I feel when people see SVG more and more as
flash substitute, the same widget accessibility topics will arise, notably
definition of keyboard interaction and usage of roles not mentioned
explicitly in the spec.

I understand your attempt to keep the role set small in first instance. I
also see the ARIA 1.1 aria-roledescription jumping right in here but for
cases like aria-roledescription = ”button” this seems to be trivial and
code variations like

      A)    <g  focusable role=”graphics-object” aria-roledescription =
      ”button” …>

versus

B) <g  focusable  role=”button” … >

need  spec clarification what to do in my opinion.

Reading https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/struct.html#WAIARIAAttributes Role
attribute,  it seems that also

      C)  <g  focusable role=”graphics-object button”

would be also OK. So, what is correct for a button-like element in SVG2, A)
B) or C)?


>> We have also added script-based keyboard support for SVG2.

This is fine but will this also include standard keyboard behavior
definitions as the APG for ARIA does? Or will there  be reference
implementation patterns if people start to design more complex components
and widget-like things?

Best Regards
Stefan


From: Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:schwer@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Montag, 14. Dezember 2015 13:11
To: Schnabel, Stefan <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
Cc: Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com>; public-aria@w3.org
Subject: Re: ARIA roles in WAI-ARIA Graphics Module working draft



Hi Stefan,

In SVG 2.0 it is possible to do this as we have added keyboard support. We
have a new graphics document that will be the basis for accessible
graphics. The number of roles is intentionally small as we must first focus
on making sure SVG base accessibility mapping is consistent across the
operating system platforms. Right now it is all over the map and not all of
SVG is provided for. Here is the ARIA graphics document.

http://www.w3.org/TR/graphics-aria-1.0/


I can tell you that SVG is IBM's replacement for Flash too.

I would like to draw you and your developers to the current SVG2
specification section on WAI-ARIA. I am the editor on this:
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/struct.html#WAIARIAAttributes


You will see we have added the tabindex attribute to SVG2:
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/struct.html#tabindexattribute


We have also added script-based keyboard support for SVG2.

People will be creating widgets but our focus will be intractive graphics
and charts after we get the core infrasturucture working across browsers.

Rocj



Rich Schwerdtfeger

Inactive hide details for "Schnabel, Stefan" ---12/11/2015 12:01:51 PM---Hi
Fred, my developers bother me with the question if "Schnabel, Stefan"
---12/11/2015 12:01:51 PM---Hi Fred, my developers bother me with the
question if things like

From: "Schnabel, Stefan" <stefan.schnabel@sap.com>
To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS
Cc: "public-aria@w3.org" <public-aria@w3.org>
Date: 12/11/2015 12:01 PM
Subject: ARIA roles in WAI-ARIA Graphics Module working draft





Hi Fred,

my developers bother me with the question if things like

<g role=”button” ….>

(and other ARIA roles) are allowed according to
http://www.w3.org/TR/graphics-aria-1.0/ or just the roles mentioned
there explicitly or other.

Can you please clarify? I cannot find a respective section in the document
so far that is explicit about that.

Background is that rumors are that Adobe already announced SVG as Flash
“replacement” and if so, people will start creating “richer” UI’s using SVG
also for widgets (which they shouldn’t but they will, I fear).

Best Regards
Stefan

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Received on Monday, 4 January 2016 22:12:18 UTC

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