W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-aria@w3.org > February 2016

Re: aria-kbdshortcuts feedback

From: Chaals McCathie Nevile <chaals@yandex-team.ru>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 18:58:38 +0100
To: "John Foliot" <john.foliot@deque.com>, "Rich Schwerdtfeger" <richschwer@gmail.com>
Cc: "Dominic Mazzoni" <dmazzoni@google.com>, "ARIA Working Group" <public-aria@w3.org>, "James Craig" <jcraig@apple.com>
Message-ID: <op.ydcmv0rds7agh9@widsith.local>
On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 18:10:53 +0100, Rich Schwerdtfeger  
<richschwer@gmail.com> wrote:

> What browser support does this Chaals keyboard shortcut have?

It currently works - to varying degrees of quality - in at least
Internet Explorer
Yandex Browser

It is also built on by a variety of browser extensions, most notably to  
fix the bugs with notification to users, but occasionally also for  
remapping shortcuts and other user-focused enhancements.

> What are they doing to ensure this works with SVG?

At present, nothing, although it basically requires a change to SVG that  
means adoption of HTML processing of the attribute. This does not seem to  
be a particularly complex thing to either implement assuming browsers can  
move focus to SVG elements, which is already true of some and is a  
standing request for others. It also seems relatively simple to explain to  

Finally, it works with existing deployed content, which is probably  
somewhere around the level of 1-2% of the web (based on some private  
large-scale surveying).


> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>> On Feb 24, 2016, at 10:59 AM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com> wrote:
>> Hi Rich,
>> I do agree with your comments, however I think as well that as the ARIA  
>> WG addresses aria-keyboardshortcuts [sic] that any solution be in step  
>> with, and not counter to, work that is happening around @accesskey
>> JF
>>   <>
>> From: Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:richschwer@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:27 AM
>> To: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>
>> Cc: Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>; ARIA Working Group  
>> <public-aria@w3.org>; James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>; Charles McCathie  
>> Nevile <chaals@yandex-team.ru>
>> Subject: Re: aria-kbdshortcuts feedback
>> The accesskey Charles is proposing suffers from similar issues  
>> regarding knowing the keyboard type.
>> How are the accesskeys exposed to ATs?
>> This implementation of accesskeys requires they be visible but if the  
>> author does not want to show them all the time will the be active? …  
>> What if the accesskeys are such that:
>> <nav hidden>
>> …
>> </nav>
>> Rich
>>> On Feb 24, 2016, at 10:02 AM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com  
>>> <mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>> wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>> I suspect that there will be an intersection between this topic and  
>>> Chaals’ current Draft Proposal on @accesskey, found here:  
>>> http://chaals.github.io/accesskey/index.src.html  
>>> <http://chaals.github.io/accesskey/index.src.html>
>>> Specifically to one of James’ concerns, there is a consideration for  
>>> i18n in there.
>>> (Note to Chaals: the Contents link to “5.5 Assigning Keyboard  
>>> Shortcuts  
>>> <http://chaals.github.io/accesskey/assigning-keyboard-shortcuts>” in  
>>> the current draft is broken)
>>> JF
>>> From: Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:richschwer@gmail.com  
>>> <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:32 AM
>>> To: Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com <mailto:dmazzoni@google.com>>
>>> Cc: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org  
>>> <mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>; James Craig <jcraig@apple.com  
>>> <mailto:jcraig@apple.com>>
>>> Subject: Fwd: aria-kbdshortcuts feedback
>>> Hi Dominic,
>>> You put the original proposal in for this so I wanted to bring you  
>>> into this discussion.
>>> I would imagine that anyone implementing keyboard shortcuts would need  
>>> to know their are limitations beyond knowing what the languages is for  
>>> the page, regarding the keyboard being used. Given that you know the  
>>> language you are targeting do you feel it is enough to be able to  
>>> determine your keyboard shortcuts when authoring a page?
>>> Have you vetted this with the Google i18N experts?
>>> I personally don’t have issues with James name change to  
>>> aria-keyboardshortcuts other than it is very long or the use of the  
>>> word control (this is spelled out on Mac keyboards).
>>> We are working toward locking ARIA 1.1 down so that we can move on to  
>>> ARIA 2.0, web component support, etc.
>>> Rich
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>> From: James Craig <jcraig@apple.com <mailto:jcraig@apple.com>>
>>>> Subject: aria-kbdshortcuts feedback
>>>> Date: February 24, 2016 at 3:33:06 AM CST
>>>> To: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org  
>>>> <mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>
>>>> Resent-From: public-aria@w3.org <mailto:public-aria@w3.org>
>>>> Issue #1: Name: kbdshortcuts. With the notable exception/oversight of  
>>>> the "img" role, ARIA doesn't use abbreviations like "kbd" in role or  
>>>> attribute names. This one should be changed to aria-keyboardshortcuts  
>>>> or something shorter like aria-hotkeys.
>>>> Issue #2: Spec examples make it seem as if both "Control" and "Ctrl"  
>>>> are valid values. My interpretation of the KeyboardEvent spec is that  
>>>> only "Control" is valid.
>>>> Issue #3: This prose:
>>>>> When specifying a key on the keyboard that changes when you hold  
>>>>> down a modifier key other than an alphabetic key, you must specify  
>>>>> the unmodified key name. For example, on most U.S. English  
>>>>> keyboards, the percent sign "%" can be printed by pressing Shift+5.  
>>>>> The correct way to specify this shortcut is "Shift+5". It is  
>>>>> incorrect to specify "%" or "Shift+%". However, note that on some  
>>>>> international keyboards the percent sign may be an unmodified key,  
>>>>> in which case "%" and "Shift+%" would be correct on those keyboards.
>>>> If I recall correctly, I raised this specific example on the list  
>>>> last year as a reason for not including the property in ARIA 1.1. It  
>>>> is not possible for the web application to know which keyboard is  
>>>> being used and therefore not possibly to implement this feature in a  
>>>> i18n-friendly manner. Simply stating in prose that there is a problem  
>>>> does not resolve the problem.
>>>> Please don't publish this feature without consulting some of the W3C  
>>>> i18n experts.
>>>> Issue #4: Editorial: Spec does not list [ARIA 1.1] on this property.

Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
  chaals@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
Received on Wednesday, 24 February 2016 17:59:20 UTC

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