W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-aria@w3.org > February 2016

Re: aria-kbdshortcuts feedback

From: Chaals McCathie Nevile <chaals@yandex-team.ru>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 21:02:33 +0100
To: "John Foliot" <john.foliot@deque.com>, "Rich Schwerdtfeger" <richschwer@gmail.com>
Cc: "Dominic Mazzoni" <dmazzoni@google.com>, "ARIA Working Group" <public-aria@w3.org>, "James Craig" <jcraig@apple.com>
Message-ID: <op.ydcsmjzqs7agh9@widsith.local>
On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 18:58:38 +0100, Chaals McCathie Nevile  
<chaals@yandex-team.ru> wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 18:10:53 +0100, Rich Schwerdtfeger  
> <richschwer@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What browser support does this Chaals keyboard shortcut have?
> It currently works - to varying degrees of quality - in at least
> Internet Explorer
> Firefox
> Chrome
> Yandex Browser
> Safari
> Opera
> It is also built on by a variety of browser extensions, most notably to  
> fix the bugs with notification to users, but occasionally also for  
> remapping shortcuts and other user-focused enhancements.

One of the especially useful features of the current approach is that the  
attribute is automatically reflected in the DOM, and picked up by all  
these browsers. So making a change to the attribute in the page has a real  
effect, meaning that it is not difficult to build extensions that do  
things like remap match user preferences for a particular site, or share  
such preferences.

There are some test cases around this:  
chaals.github.io/accesskey/tests/index.html (Note that some summaries are  
out of date).


>> What are they doing to ensure this works with SVG?
> At present, nothing, although it basically requires a change to SVG that  
> means adoption of HTML processing of the attribute. This does not seem  
> to be a particularly complex thing to either implement assuming browsers  
> can move focus to SVG elements, which is already true of some and is a  
> standing request for others. It also seems relatively simple to explain  
> to authors.
> Finally, it works with existing deployed content, which is probably  
> somewhere around the level of 1-2% of the web (based on some private  
> large-scale surveying).
> cheers
>> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>>> On Feb 24, 2016, at 10:59 AM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>  
>>> wrote:
>>> Hi Rich,
>>> I do agree with your comments, however I think as well that as the  
>>> ARIA WG addresses aria-keyboardshortcuts [sic] that any solution be in  
>>> step with, and not counter to, work that is happening around @accesskey
>>> JF
>>>   <>
>>> From: Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:richschwer@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:27 AM
>>> To: John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com>
>>> Cc: Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com>; ARIA Working Group  
>>> <public-aria@w3.org>; James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>; Charles McCathie  
>>> Nevile <chaals@yandex-team.ru>
>>> Subject: Re: aria-kbdshortcuts feedback
>>> The accesskey Charles is proposing suffers from similar issues  
>>> regarding knowing the keyboard type.
>>> How are the accesskeys exposed to ATs?
>>> This implementation of accesskeys requires they be visible but if the  
>>> author does not want to show them all the time will the be active? …  
>>> What if the accesskeys are such that:
>>> <nav hidden>
>>> …
>>> </nav>
>>> Rich
>>>> On Feb 24, 2016, at 10:02 AM, John Foliot <john.foliot@deque.com  
>>>> <mailto:john.foliot@deque.com>> wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>> I suspect that there will be an intersection between this topic and  
>>>> Chaals’ current Draft Proposal on @accesskey, found here:  
>>>> http://chaals.github.io/accesskey/index.src.html  
>>>> <http://chaals.github.io/accesskey/index.src.html>
>>>> Specifically to one of James’ concerns, there is a consideration for  
>>>> i18n in there.
>>>> (Note to Chaals: the Contents link to “5.5 Assigning Keyboard  
>>>> Shortcuts  
>>>> <http://chaals.github.io/accesskey/assigning-keyboard-shortcuts>” in  
>>>> the current draft is broken)
>>>> JF
>>>> From: Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:richschwer@gmail.com  
>>>> <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:32 AM
>>>> To: Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com <mailto:dmazzoni@google.com>>
>>>> Cc: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org  
>>>> <mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>; James Craig <jcraig@apple.com  
>>>> <mailto:jcraig@apple.com>>
>>>> Subject: Fwd: aria-kbdshortcuts feedback
>>>> Hi Dominic,
>>>> You put the original proposal in for this so I wanted to bring you  
>>>> into this discussion.
>>>> I would imagine that anyone implementing keyboard shortcuts would  
>>>> need to know their are limitations beyond knowing what the languages  
>>>> is for the page, regarding the keyboard being used. Given that you  
>>>> know the language you are targeting do you feel it is enough to be  
>>>> able to determine your keyboard shortcuts when authoring a page?
>>>> Have you vetted this with the Google i18N experts?
>>>> I personally don’t have issues with James name change to  
>>>> aria-keyboardshortcuts other than it is very long or the use of the  
>>>> word control (this is spelled out on Mac keyboards).
>>>> We are working toward locking ARIA 1.1 down so that we can move on to  
>>>> ARIA 2.0, web component support, etc.
>>>> Rich
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>> From: James Craig <jcraig@apple.com <mailto:jcraig@apple.com>>
>>>>> Subject: aria-kbdshortcuts feedback
>>>>> Date: February 24, 2016 at 3:33:06 AM CST
>>>>> To: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org  
>>>>> <mailto:public-aria@w3.org>>
>>>>> Resent-From: public-aria@w3.org <mailto:public-aria@w3.org>
>>>>> Issue #1: Name: kbdshortcuts. With the notable exception/oversight  
>>>>> of the "img" role, ARIA doesn't use abbreviations like "kbd" in role  
>>>>> or attribute names. This one should be changed to  
>>>>> aria-keyboardshortcuts or something shorter like aria-hotkeys.
>>>>> Issue #2: Spec examples make it seem as if both "Control" and "Ctrl"  
>>>>> are valid values. My interpretation of the KeyboardEvent spec is  
>>>>> that only "Control" is valid.
>>>>> Issue #3: This prose:
>>>>>> When specifying a key on the keyboard that changes when you hold  
>>>>>> down a modifier key other than an alphabetic key, you must specify  
>>>>>> the unmodified key name. For example, on most U.S. English  
>>>>>> keyboards, the percent sign "%" can be printed by pressing Shift+5.  
>>>>>> The correct way to specify this shortcut is "Shift+5". It is  
>>>>>> incorrect to specify "%" or "Shift+%". However, note that on some  
>>>>>> international keyboards the percent sign may be an unmodified key,  
>>>>>> in which case "%" and "Shift+%" would be correct on those keyboards.
>>>>> If I recall correctly, I raised this specific example on the list  
>>>>> last year as a reason for not including the property in ARIA 1.1. It  
>>>>> is not possible for the web application to know which keyboard is  
>>>>> being used and therefore not possibly to implement this feature in a  
>>>>> i18n-friendly manner. Simply stating in prose that there is a  
>>>>> problem does not resolve the problem.
>>>>> Please don't publish this feature without consulting some of the W3C  
>>>>> i18n experts.
>>>>> Issue #4: Editorial: Spec does not list [ARIA 1.1] on this property.

Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
  chaals@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
Received on Wednesday, 24 February 2016 20:03:11 UTC

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