- From: James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>
- Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 12:56:06 -0700
- To: Richard Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com>, Bryan Garaventa <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>
- Cc: "public-aria-admin@w3.org" <public-aria-admin@w3.org>, ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <14c418a5-5ea7-4101-c9b8-92b1d3086f11@oracle.com>
Rich, See the OAA example here http://oaa-accessibility.org/example/25/ Menuitems have child menus in this example. regards, James On 6/20/2016 12:48 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote: > Bryan, > > Menus use aria-haspopup to indicate submenus on menuitems. They > resulting popup menu will not be a child of the menuitem. > > Rich > > >> On Jun 20, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Bryan Garaventa >> <bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com >> <mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com>> wrote: >> >> “Children are presentational cannot work for treeitem, menuitem, >> menuitemcheckbox and menuitemradio. >> >> These roles are specifically required to have child elements in order >> to create trees and menus as I detailed in another mail. We cannot >> add children are presentational to them as it will break every single >> tree and menu implementation.” >> >> This is true in that menuitems can have child menuitems, and >> treeitems can have child treeitems, however leaving this wide open is >> still a problem because menuitems cannot have child regions, sliders, >> checkboxes, buttons, headings, lists, and so on. The same is true >> with treeitem roles. >> It cannot be left wide open like this.So there is still a need to >> make these children presentational with caveats >> Bryan Garaventa >> Accessibility Fellow >> SSB BART Group, Inc. >> bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com >> <mailto:bryan.garaventa@ssbbartgroup.com> >> 415.624.2709 (o) >> www.SSBBartGroup.com <http://www.ssbbartgroup.com/> >> *From:*James Nurthen [mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com] >> *Sent:*Monday, June 20, 2016 12:07 PM >> *To:*public-aria-admin@w3.org <mailto:public-aria-admin@w3.org> >> *Subject:*Re: 7-day CfC: notes on option, treeitem, and spinbutton >> about children presentational - closes 15 June >> >> Yes. >> >> Children are presentational cannot work for treeitem, menuitem, >> menuitemcheckbox and menuitemradio. >> >> These roles are specifically required to have child elements in order >> to create trees and menus as I detailed in another mail. We cannot >> add children are presentational to them as it will break every single >> tree and menu implementation. >> >> Regards, >> >> James >> >> On 6/20/2016 12:01 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote: >> >> I agree with James on the exception for spinbuttons for touch >> screen devices. >> This went out for CFC last week while I was out on vacation. >> Other than spinbutton are there any other objections to the rest >> of this proposal? >> Rich >> >> On Jun 18, 2016, at 4:31 PM, Birkir Gunnarsson >> <birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com >> <mailto:birkir.gunnarsson@deque.com>> wrote: >> "I do not believe interactive widget vs composite widget is >> the heart >> of the issue. For me, the issue is how difficult is it for >> developers >> create structures >> with ARIA markup? For authors sake, I would not like to see a >> proliferation of roles because the structure content is >> presentational >> vs interactive content >> vs complex widget. Hopefully, an author could use a single >> recognizable logical role independent of the type of content >> in the >> structure. >> " >> For me ARIA is primarily for users, not authors. >> That being said, I am fine with allowing the plus and minus >> buttons as >> the only non-presentational elements allowed for >> role="spinbutton". >> I am not on board with allowing any other elements. >> >> I am not on board allowing non-presentational elements on the >> option role. >> This is the same role used for <option> elements, and users, >> through >> years of interaction with select / option elemetns, have come to >> expect them to be presentational. >> >> >> >> On 6/18/16, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com >> <mailto:jcraig@apple.com>> wrote: >> >> Sorry I'm a couple days late responding to this. >> >> Concerns with making "spinbutton" children presentational: >> I don't think spinbutton's children should be >> presentational until there is >> a solution for the ARIA's coverage gap wrt operability. >> As an example, there >> is no good way to make custom sliders accessible on touch >> screen devices >> because there is no way to trigger the >> increment/decrement events other than >> through de facto keypress events (this workaround is not >> sustainable or >> recommended for touch screen interfaces). If the WG makes >> spinbutton's >> children presentational, the same problem will apply. >> Author's are currently >> able to make spinbuttons accessible by using descendant >> stepper buttons that >> are individually operable. (Note: The native stepper >> buttons on macOS and in >> WebKit are implemented this way.) >> >> >> >> On Jun 9, 2016, at 6:04 PM, Michael Cooper >> <cooper@w3.org <mailto:cooper@w3.org>> wrote: >> This is a Call for Consensus (CfC) to the Accessible >> Rich Internet >> Applications (ARIA) Working Group regarding the >> following resolution of >> the ARIA Working group: >> >> Add editorial note to option, treeitem, and >> spinbutton roles that their >> "children are presentational" status is provisional >> Background >> This was approved by the participants of the 9 June >> 2016 teleconference, >> and further context is available in the minutes: >> >> https://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-aria-minutes.html#item02 >> <https://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-aria-minutes.html#item02>Note >> this >> resolution does not close discussion on the issue of >> whether these roles >> ultimately should have the children presentational >> restriction, or whether >> further engineering is needed, and if so in what time >> frame. This edit >> supports wider review of the topic. >> Action >> This CfC is now open for objection, comment, as well >> as statements of >> support via email. Silence will be interpreted as >> support, though messages >> of support are certainly welcome. >> If you object to this proposal, or have comments >> concerning it, please >> respond by replying on list to this message no later >> than 23:59 (midnight) >> Boston Time, Wednesday, 15 June 2016. For objections >> only, please copy the >> main <mailto:aria@w3.org>aria@w3.org >> <mailto:aria@w3.org><mailto:aria@w3.org> list to allow >> technical discussion of the objection to happen there. >> Process >> This CfC is conducted per the ARIA WG decision policy: >> >> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/decision-policy >> <https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/decision-policy> >> I am issuing this CfC as acting chair, but Rich will >> record the formal >> ratification if passed. >> Michael >> >> >> >> -- >> Birkir Gunnarsson, CPACC >> Senior Accessibility Subject Matter Expert | Deque Systems >> 2121 Cooperative Way, Suite 210 >> Herndon, VA, 20171 >> >> Ph: (919) 607-27 53 >> Twitter: @birkir_gun >> >> -- >> Regards, James >> >> <image001.gif> <http://www.oracle.com/> >> James Nurthen | Principal Engineer, Accessibility >> Phone:+1 650 506 6781 <tel:+1%20650%20506%206781>| Mobile:+1 415 987 >> 1918 <tel:+1%20415%20987%201918>| Video:james.nurthen@oracle.com >> <mailto:james.nurthen@oracle.com> >> OracleCorporate Architecture >> 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood Cty, CA 94065 >> <image002.gif> <http://www.oracle.com/commitment>Oracle is committed >> to developing practices and products that help protect the environment >> > -- Regards, James Oracle <http://www.oracle.com> James Nurthen | Principal Engineer, Accessibility Phone: +1 650 506 6781 <tel:+1%20650%20506%206781> | Mobile: +1 415 987 1918 <tel:+1%20415%20987%201918> | Video: james.nurthen@oracle.com <sip:james.nurthen@oracle.com> Oracle Corporate Architecture 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood Cty, CA 94065 Green Oracle <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment
Received on Monday, 20 June 2016 19:56:47 UTC