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Re: generic parsers

From: Sebastian Samaruga <ssamarug@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 20:22:21 -0300
Message-ID: <CAOLUXBsAi8JgCUgODgRzXC_9j31ApXpbgi-oZoi+oHp6xRmhFA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Paola Di Maio <paoladimaio10@gmail.com>
Cc: Owen Ambur <owen.ambur@verizon.net>, Chris Fox <chris@chriscfox.com>, jorge@vionta.net, W3C AIKR CG <public-aikr@w3.org>, Pradeep Jain <Pradeep.Jain@ictect.com>, Alain Barbet <alian123soleil@gmail.com>, Andre Cusson <akhu01@gmail.com>, Pooyan Zamanian <p.zamanian@gmail.com>
Maybe the parsers that you refer are tools enabling the extraction of
semantic statements from textual description portions of strategy
documents. Not to confuse with an XML parser (strategy encoding / schema

For this approach I can mention Apache Stanbol (stanbol.apache.org), Apache
Tika and Apache Any23 among others.

It is also possible to render those kind of parsers needless if strategy
documents where allowed to have microformats / semantic / LOD annotations
in them (a la www.schema.org). Otherwise I'm currently finding hard to see
where strategies and semantics fits, beyond a serialization format and
without the benefits of LOD / Alignments Augmentations.

I'm really enthusiastic to find out more about this subjects. Some examples
and learning resources will be greatly appreciated. Thanks,


On Thu, May 7, 2020, 9:05 PM Paola Di Maio <paoladimaio10@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you Owen
> yes I understand that query interface may not be part of Stratml
> it is however what makes it useful/usable
> In principle anyone can build structured documents or performance schemas
> without using a standard (not trying to diminish the value of standards at
> all)
> and use a variety of methods to parse/query
> Since Straml is offered, its going to be nice to see/demo its application
> facilitated by an online wizard
> in addition to Stratnav. I wonder if StratNav may end up incorporating the
> wizard
> G
> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 1:29 AM Owen Ambur <Owen.Ambur@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Here are the points I'd add to this exchange:
>>    1. Presentation/styling is not part of the StratML standard itself.
>>    The focus of the standard is the *substance* and *structure* of the
>>    content of strategic and performance plans and reports.  It is up to tool,
>>    app, and service developers to leverage the semantics and structure of the
>>    schema to enable discovery and presentation in ways most useful to their
>>    stakeholders.
>>    2. The <PerformanceIndictor> elements of the StratML schema *enable*
>>    the capture and presentation of the kind of performance progress data you
>>    reference in your message.  While beauty is in the eye of the beholder,
>>    Chris has demonstrated the basic capability to present such quantitative
>>    performance indicator data in his app.  I look forward to seeing how it
>>    presents longer time-series of such data.  It will also be interesting to
>>    see how *qualitative* performance indicators can most usefully be
>>    presented, e.g., by red, yellow, green markings.
>>    3. The instruction on how to enhance query parsing at
>>    https://www.searchtechnologies.com/search-query-parsing is aimed at
>>    improving full-text query capabilities, which by definition do *not*
>>    take advantage of the structure and semantics of schemas, like the StratML
>>    schemas. Eventually, query services that do so will enable not merely
>>    discovery of entire documents in which queried terms appear but more
>>    explicit reference (direct links) to the elements in which those terms
>>    occur, like this
>>    <https://stratml.us/carmel/iso/part2/AIKRCGforComment.xml#_5d94e454-83e9-11e8-8f10-5ac7e53a5ccc>
>>    .
>>    4. I defer to Carl to share the details for our next televideo
>>    conference on Tuesday, May 12, when we will continue fleshing our our
>>    draft plan
>>    <https://www.stratnavapp.com/StratML/Part1/413d648b-bd36-418d-af74-e15b0cd8281d/Styled>
>>    in Chris' StratNavApp.
>> Owen
>> On 5/7/2020 4:24 AM, Chris Fox wrote:
>> Hi Paola,
>> Yes, StratNavApp.com does what you suggest, and is able to represent that
>> in StratML. The tweaking that we talked about is purely presentation,
>> rather than functional.
>> Kind Regards,
>> Chris
>> On Thu, 7 May 2020 at 05:06, Paola Di Maio <paoladimaio10@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Owen
>>> thanks- Jorge answered the question already (what I dont know yet if
>>> there  is a wizard online installed somewhere already on the web, I am not
>>> likely to install one myself)
>>> Let me be more precise when I think parser in relation to strtml I mean
>>> a query parser
>>> https://www.searchtechnologies.com/search-query-parsing
>>> a parser that enables me to query a st of strtml documents according to
>>> different variables
>>> I may be able to attend the meeting next week.?
>>> Pls enter details here!
>>> https://www.w3.org/community/aikr/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=edit&section=5
>>>  Stratnav as I understand it so far has a slight modelling issue. the
>>> way I see it
>>> - that can be easily fixed since Chris says he is thinking of tweaking
>>> things
>>> for each performance plan, the user should input a set of desired target
>>> (say for this year my performance should be publish 4 papers)
>>> then, throughout the period of the plan. the user would be able to input
>>> the targets one by one as they are met
>>> (I should be able to input the papers one by one as they are published)
>>> thus. the performance function/graph should show incremental progress
>>> I am not sure stratnav does that yet, but that would be an essential
>>> functionality to have
>>> (to show the incremental progress towards a perfomance plan by tracking
>>> the targets)
>>> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 10:28 AM Owen Ambur <Owen.Ambur@verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Paola, I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are saying.
>>>> By generic "parser" I'm guessing that you mean an application that can
>>>> select out goal and objective statements from unstructured ("natural
>>>> language") text and render them in StratML format.  If so, I am unaware of
>>>> any tool that can do that.
>>>> However, Pradeep Jain and his colleagues at Ictect have previously
>>>> developed a template for use in MS Word, from which their patented
>>>> technology rendered StratML.  If sufficient demand were to arise from MS
>>>> Word users, I trust they'd be happy to update the template to work with the
>>>> latest version of Word.  https://stratml.us/index.htm#Ictect
>>>> On the other hand, if by "produce an output based on a StratML URL
>>>> input," you mean exactly what those words say, Alain Barbet's XForm for
>>>> StratML Part 2 can do that, at
>>>> http://waterland.freeboxos.fr:8009/Part2Form.xml  You can try it with
>>>> this URL, if you'd like:
>>>> https://stratml.us/carmel/iso/AIKRCGwStyle.xml  Or you can just click
>>>> on this link
>>>> <http://stratml.us/forms/walt5.pl?url=http://stratml.us/carmel/iso/AIKRCG.xml>
>>>> and the file will automatically open in the XForm for editing.
>>>> I'm hoping Jorge's "wizard" version of the StratML forms will soon have
>>>> similar capabilities.
>>>> In any event, the advantage of using either his StratML application or
>>>> Chris's StratNavApp is that they are backed by databases, whereas files
>>>> created in the XForms must be saved locally and then manually posted
>>>> somewhere on the Web, e.g., via the hypertext index I have been maintaining
>>>> at https://stratml.us/drybridge/index.htm  The trade-off is that
>>>> giving users rights to write to the database means Chris and Jorge also
>>>> need to manage UIDs & passwords, overhead I have not wanted to take on
>>>> myself.
>>>> Chris' app also has many other features to help organizations and
>>>> groups craft better plans, including the capability to work collaboratively
>>>> together to edit and comment on them.  The group that Carl has been leading
>>>> began doing that last week and plans to continue fleshing out our plan
>>>> during our televideo conference next Tuesday.  We moved the time up an hour
>>>> to accommodate your schedule and I hope you'll be able to join us.
>>>> I'm looking forward to the day that a sufficient number of dynamic
>>>> StratML indices are semi-automatically maintained by others on the Web so
>>>> that I can stop manually maintaining my static hypertext listing.  Ideally,
>>>> those repositories would not only provide the query capabilities outlined
>>>> here
>>>> <https://stratml.us/carmel/iso/SMLTASwStyle.xml#_15446932-208f-11e6-a80e-7333871eb3cb>
>>>> but also have the capability to notify each other of additions to the
>>>> collection.
>>>> If the StratML standard were to begin to attract sufficient usage, I
>>>> trust that Andre Cusson may wish to re-initiate work on his StratML
>>>> portal <https://stratml.us/index.htm#Cusson>, that the folks at Ximdex
>>>> may want to reengineer their StratML query service
>>>> <http://space.ximdex.net/stratml-portal/> to take advantage of the
>>>> structure and semantics of the schema, and that Pooyan Zamanian may wish to
>>>> elevate the visibility of his StratML portal
>>>> <https://stratml.us/index.htm#Pooyan> (in Farsi).  Perhaps Esri might
>>>> also be enticed to re-initiate their StratML portal
>>>> <https://stratml.us/index.htm#ESRI> to provide geospatial referencing
>>>> services.
>>>> In large measure, that depends upon whether potential users recognize
>>>> the value and importance of using the StratML standard but, of course, that
>>>> is a chicken-or-egg situation.  As Steve Jobs famously said, it's not the
>>>> role of customers to know what they want; it is the role of entrepreneurs
>>>> to show them... and, after seeing it (like the iPhone) they quickly come to
>>>> feel they simply must have it.  That's why I'm so anxious to see what Jorge
>>>> and other developers can do.
>>>> I hope this helps.  If you have further questions, just let us know.
>>>> Hope to see and hear from you during our televideo conference on Tuesday.
>>>> I trust Carl will be sending out a reminder with the connection info.
>>>> Owen
>>>> On 5/6/2020 8:14 PM, Paola Di Maio wrote:
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Sounds great
>>>> If you could circulate a web based version of parser that can produce
>>>> an output based on stratml ulr inputs
>>>> we can play around with it and let you know-
>>>> I am not likely to download a parser to my machine that would not work
>>>> for me
>>>> Does it make sense?
>>>> thank you
>>>> P
>>>> On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 8:04 AM Jorge Sanchez <jorge@vionta.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Paola,
>>>>> From what I remember you can use antlr.org <https://www.antlr.org> to
>>>>> define and interpret grammars. Xml would be an easy task for Antlr, but no
>>>>> need to do it as there are a myriad of pre-built tools that we can use for
>>>>> that.
>>>>> *"is the wizard you are working on going to have an online interface?"*
>>>>> Yes, it definitely has. Multilingual (English and Spanish by now).The
>>>>> form is provided in two ways:
>>>>>       - Anyone can download and use the client side form. It can be
>>>>> deployed in a HTTP server and integrated with a regular HTTP REST endpoint.
>>>>> Config can be adjusted using the config.xml file.
>>>>>       - Anyone can deploy the JEE application on a compliant
>>>>> Java/Jakarta EE server. It would require to adjust the user permissions or
>>>>> just disable them (check the role names on the web.xml).
>>>>> Any feedback would be great. Although at this point I expect that
>>>>> anyone that use it would require some level of assistance. The main goal is
>>>>> that any organization can use it to build their internal plan repository.
>>>>> Regards.
>>>>> ---- On Tue, 05 May 2020 13:33:25 +0200 *Paola Di Maio
>>>>> <paoladimaio10@gmail.com <paoladimaio10@gmail.com>>* wrote ----
>>>>> Thank you
>>>>> you say that antrl doesnt work with xml?
>>>>> is the wizard you are working on going to have an online interface?
>>>>> something we can enter the urls to be parsed with pointers to specific
>>>>> fields we want
>>>>> to query
>>>>> would you like user input /requirements for the wizard?
>>>>> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 7:29 PM Jorge Sanchez <jorge@vionta.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Paola,
>>>>> Antlr is a well known tool for grammars. Anyway at StratML we rely on
>>>>> Xml schemas to describe and analyze the domain.
>>>>> The original form is at Owens github (also on the stratml.us site):
>>>>> https://github.com/OwenAmbur/StratML
>>>>> You can find also the latest status of the wizard form at Vionta site
>>>>> (standalone client side):
>>>>> https://github.com/vionta/StratML/tree/master/forms/wizard
>>>>> Or the full web application (Java/Jakarta + maven) with the wizard
>>>>> form at:
>>>>> https://github.com/vionta/stratml-web-app
>>>>> Kind Regards.
>>>>> ---- On Mon, 04 May 2020 14:38:10 +0200 *Paola Di Maio
>>>>> <paola.dimaio@gmail.com <paola.dimaio@gmail.com>>* wrote ----
>>>>> There are a number of open source tools that ( they say)  should be
>>>>> able to parse structured text
>>>>> I found antlr https://www.antlr.org/
>>>>> do people know of others?
>>>>> I wonder if we should/could evaluate existing tools to see if they can
>>>>> do the job befor building an ad hoc one
>>>>> In addition, I t would be interesting to see the approach for jorge's
>>>>> parsers for stratml
>>>>> is this work being done somewhere visible like githug or is it
>>>>> happening offline?
>> --
>> Chris Fox
>> Chris C Fox Consulting Limited
>>  chris@chriscfox.com
>>  +44 77 860 21712
>> <http://www.chriscfox.com>    <https://calendly.com/chriscfox>
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/chriscfox>
>> <http://www.twitter.com/chriscfox>
>> <http://www.facebook.com/pages/StrategicCoffee/102920468071>
>> <https://join.skype.com/invite/oxuJFtEDlgQw>
>> Have you tried https://www.StratNavApp.com <https://www.stratnavapp.com/>,
>> the online collaborative tool for strategy development and execution?
>> Chris C Fox Consulting Limited is registered in England and Wales as a
>> Private Limited Company: Company Number 6939359. Registered Office: Unit 4
>> Vista Place, Coy Pond Business Park, Ingworth Road, Poole BH12 1JY

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Received on Sunday, 31 May 2020 00:35:05 UTC

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