- From: Matthew Atkinson <matkinson@tpgi.com>
- Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2022 15:11:35 +0000
- To: Sharon D Snider <snidersd@us.ibm.com>, "public-adapt@w3.org" <public-adapt@w3.org>
Hi all,
The minutes for today can be found at https://www.w3.org/2022/10/17-adapt-minutes.html - and below in text form for convenience. Thanks to Charles for helping with the scribing.
Best regards,
Matthew
– DRAFT –
WAI Adapt Task Force Teleconference
17 October 2022
[2]IRC log.
[2] https://www.w3.org/2022/10/17-adapt-irc
Attendees
Present
becky, CharlesL, janina, matatk, MichaelC, Roy
Regrets
-
Chair
Sharon
Scribe
CharlesL, matatk, matatk:
Contents
1. [3]New TAG and public explainers (Janina)
2. [4]CR updates for new spec focused only on symbols
3. [5]How do we show TAG the Next billion users.
4. [6]WHATWG – reserve “adapt-“ prefix (Do we go to symbols CR
with data- or adapt-?)
5. [7]BCI Registry Specification
6. [8]CSS (i.e., media-queries) & Microformats (Matthew)
7. [9]Purpose - Can we add to the list of WCAG auto-complete
attributes?
8. [10]Distraction - Write up use cases that don't touch
advertising.
Meeting minutes
<Github1> [11]https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203 : Unclear
how the Bliss symbol examples should work with i10n/i18n.
[11] https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203
<Github1> [12]https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203 : Unclear
how the Bliss symbol examples should work with i10n/i18n.
[12] https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203
<Github1> [13]https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203 : Unclear
how the Bliss symbol examples should work with i10n/i18n.
[13] https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203
New TAG and public explainers (Janina)
<janina> [14]https://raw.githack.com/w3c/adapt/
explainer.js2210a/index.html
[14] https://raw.githack.com/w3c/adapt/explainer.js2210a/index.html
janina: Made sevral edits to reflect the new structure,
including:
… listing the modules, and stating more may be forthcoming;
adding two important paragraphs in the distraction part.
<CharlesL> WAI-Adapt recognizes that appropriate simplification
will often be task determined. A complex page will often
support multiple tasks each of which could be critical to the
user requiring simplification at different times. We propose to
facilitate users defining what task is critical to them in the
moment rather than pre-determining what is primary or secondary
in advance.
janina: Last para of Easily Distracted / Overwhelmed: added
paragraph to reflect the discussion at TPAC regarding the
variable nature of what is important to a given user.
janina: Do we want to remove mention of advertisements?
matatk: TPAC discussion critical task for someone is very
important. Use of Symbols, we are not trying to do
translations. We need only the critical items on the page to
complete the task.
… , I agree this is a significant issue, concerned about last
sentence.
… , i.e. We propose to facilitate users defining what task is
critical to them in the moment rather than pre-determining what
is primary or secondary in advance.
… , can we agree on the critical case.
… , we shouldn't decide that in the explainer.
… , don't want to box us in for a specific way and get advice
from COGA.
janina: Agree we need to talk with COGA about this. Don't agree
that what's absolutely critical is always clear (what do you
want to do when you visit Amazon's home page?) Happy to edit
this to make it clear we are investigating it.
janina: Suggested re-writes?
matatk: I would say instead of propose what is critical to
them. We propose to investigate …
… , this is a useful spec the research is done for decades, the
experts need to be consulted with.
… , I don't want to tie us to something specific.
Janina: will add "will investigate"
matatk: I won't hold this up and am happy with this addition
janina: *Just made change to the wording.*
sharon: Does the group wish to review, or merge now?
becky: I've not had the chance to review yet, but happy to
tweak after merging if need be (I expect big changes won't be
needed).
matatk: +1 to merging now
sharon: Last week we talked about the placeholder "bar" being
used in examples (like in addresses); I changed that to "home"
- do we want to change it here too?
janina: Could do. Also we may want to tweak more about
advertising, but I think OK to merge now and then tweak.
janina: I'm not the one to work on the examples and tweaking
them.
sharon: We need someone to take the next round of edits on
this.
becky: I can look at the examples.
sharon: I think we can merge janina's work and then have becky
iterate on it.
CharlesL: +1
CR updates for new spec focused only on symbols
sharon's PR: [15]https://github.com/w3c/adapt/pull/223
[15] https://github.com/w3c/adapt/pull/223
janina: I re-wrote it (and posted to list) to laser focus on
symbols.
Preview URL for symbols-only stuff: [16]https://
raw.githack.com/w3c/adapt/symbols-only-content/content/
index.html
[16] https://raw.githack.com/w3c/adapt/symbols-only-content/content/index.html
sharon: Do we want to merge and then take another pass?
janina: +1
sharon: Once these two pieces are done, is it ready for CR?
janina: We'll probably need to clean up the TAG explainer to
laser focus on symbols.
janina: It's an action for me, but I've not started yet.
sharon: Any objections to merging?
*none from group*
How do we show TAG the Next billion users.
janina: In the US there are 2,000,000 AAC users. That's more
than screen reader users.
… THis is powerful, and would be good to find out more about
it, but we don't need to tackle this immediately.
… David Fazio made the assertion that research has shown that
early interventions with symbols can lead to better outcomes in
adulthood. I asked him to find this research so we can cite it,
and he's taken that on.
sharon: Will make a note about research needed.
WHATWG – reserve “adapt-“ prefix (Do we go to symbols CR with data- or
adapt-?)
sharon: Where are we with this?
matatk: I understand from TPAC they'd like us to request adapt-
and they found it's avaiable.
… We also need to be _somewhat_ prepared with further likely
attributes in the series.
matatk: ties into issue how do we go about balance user/author.
we need an MVP of markup we talked about ARIA and CSS, ARIA is
much easier. Some technical questions. I can put on the list
… , similarities with ARIA .. we can skip that not understood
by WHAT WG
… , we need to REL attributes worth exploring
… , its been suggested we have not looked into microformats
Janina: we got from Michael that its not worth microformats.
matatk: its not really specified anywhere, all the REL
attributes, we should investigate. and could we use the
auto-complee in place of our attribute if it can be used on
more elements if we think thats worth doing.
<MichaelC> [17]https://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2
[17] https://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2
MichaelC: In doing some research, I came across "Microformats
2" and it looks like they may have fixed some of the structural
problems.
MichaelC: The reasons for exploring this could be different.
(Not saying we should or shouldn't use it, but just wanted to
clarify.)
janina: Maybe matatk should make a list of all of our
attributes, and other technologies that might satisfy them?
matatk: Yep
sharon: Are we looking for matatk to do this _before_ we ask
for a prefix, so we have something to go to WHATWG with?
janina: Yes; we want to know we need the prefix for more than
just symbols.
matatk: harder question is continuing the conversation with
CSS, media queries could solve this
… , I feel close to an example which may show MQ might not work
for all cases. CSS puts everything in authors hands.
… , found the video can watch which was on MQ. so I can
articulate the question to CSS.
janina: We need to get this articulated ASAP so we are able to
ask WHATWG in a timely manner, by November.
BCI Registry Specification
MichaelC: *set up a call to coordinate with Bliss about setting
up the registry, in the half-hour before this call*
MichaelC: We had Russell who's been our primary liaison, and
Shirley, who is one of the founders of the Bliss organization.
Roy has prepared a draft of the registry document. I created a
PR to add the Bliss registry to it.
<MichaelC> [18]https://github.com/w3c/adapt-registry/pull/1
[18] https://github.com/w3c/adapt-registry/pull/1
<janina> [19]https://www.w3.org/2022/10/17-aac-minutes.html
[19] https://www.w3.org/2022/10/17-aac-minutes.html
MichaelC: It's a JSON file that's formatted into an HTML table
by script (will be static on each snapshot). As the vocab is
huge, we talked about subsetting Bliss. Looked at this with a
focus on interop with other symbol libraries.
… We need to continue with this and publish something that's
feasible and achievable. They're open to the idea of a subset,
but we may need to seek guidance (e.g. from some in COGA) about
how to subset it.
… Current version is so big that it crashes my browser.
… We'll continue working on this call.
janina: The pointer to that draft is in the PR to the Explainer
we just approved.
… This was mentioned in the TAG, but was deep.
CSS (i.e., media-queries) & Microformats (Matthew)
matatk: Sorry; already covered this above!
matatk: Yes I will add microformats to the wiki
sharon: Will you be able to make the table for alternatives for
attributes?
matatk: yes
sharon: Do we need the table of autocomplete values, and
whether we're covering them in our spec?
matatk: autocomplete is another item I am looking at but I
don't need that table, but I will let you know.
Purpose - Can we add to the list of WCAG auto-complete attributes?
sharon: Covered above, in the "attribute alternatives" table.
Distraction - Write up use cases that don't touch advertising.
janina: I've started a list. So far just got one thing:
validation of form fields. There will be more.
… If there's enough semantic data in there to colour things
red, how about other ways to draw your attention to what needs
fixing?
… Others should be thinking about distractions.
… I'm still wondering if distraction and simplification are the
same thing.
matatk: I don't think they are btw.
… , question: does content usable help us with this question
about distractions.
janina: I don't think so.
Becky: could be done with CSS right?
janina: yeah.
sharon: We should all be looking for use cases in this area.
sharon: I think most of our distractions _could_ be covered by
CSS.
janina: Terms of service was another one, but likely to cause
legal/TAG concerns.
becky: What about the cookie dialog? Could an extension handle
this?
matatk: There are standard components that use to provide these
dialogs you could create a web extension to do this.
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
[20]scribe.perl version 192 (Tue Jun 28 16:55:30 2022 UTC).
[20] https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html
Diagnostics
Maybe present: sharon
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Matthew Tylee Atkinson (he/him)
--
Principal Accessibility Engineer
TPG Interactive
https://www.tpgi.com
A Vispero Company
https://www.vispero.com
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Received on Monday, 17 October 2022 15:11:50 UTC