- From: Matthew Atkinson <matkinson@tpgi.com>
- Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 15:16:14 +0000
- To: Sharon D Snider <snidersd@us.ibm.com>, "public-adapt@w3.org" <public-adapt@w3.org>
Hi all,
Minutes are at https://www.w3.org/2022/10/10-adapt-minutes.html and below for convenience.
Best regards,
Matthew
– DRAFT –
WAI Adapt Task Force Teleconference
10 October 2022
[2]IRC log.
[2] https://www.w3.org/2022/10/10-adapt-irc
Attendees
Present
becky, CharlesL, janina, matatk, MichaelC, Roy, sharon
Regrets
Lionel_Wolberger
Chair
sharon
Scribe
CharlesL, matatk
Contents
1. [3]New TAG and public explainers (Janina)
2. [4]CR updates for new spec focused only on symbols
3. [5]ARIA-related issues
4. [6]CSS (i.e., media-queries)
5. [7]Microformats (Matthew)
6. [8]Requirements emerging from the work on WCAG3 (Janina)
Meeting minutes
<Github> [9]https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203 : Unclear
how the Bliss symbol examples should work with i10n/i18n.
[9] https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203
<Github> [10]https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203 : Unclear
how the Bliss symbol examples should work with i10n/i18n.
[10] https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203
<Github> [11]https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203 : Unclear
how the Bliss symbol examples should work with i10n/i18n.
[11] https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203
<Github> [12]https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203 : Unclear
how the Bliss symbol examples should work with i10n/i18n.
[12] https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203
<Github> [13]https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203 : Unclear
how the Bliss symbol examples should work with i10n/i18n.
[13] https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/203
New TAG and public explainers (Janina)
janina: Started ripping out a lot of stuff, but then realised
the Explainer could reasonably describe our overall plans, and
indicate which are to be addressed later.
… So having an overall Explainer for the public may be good.
… What do people think? Do we need to focus module-by-module
for the public Explainer? Or just tweak an overall Explainer as
we add modules?
sharon: Understand what you are thinking; we've always had one
public Explainer but three planned modules.
… If we have new modules, would we just keep updating the
existing Explainer? Or add new ones?
janina: Harder to add new ones; easier to update the current
one. Some details in the current Explainer are incorrect (i.e.
number of planned modules), but we could re-phrase.
sharon: If we decide to keep one public Explainer right now,
and later got to the point where we want to split it up, would
there be anything to stop us?
MichaelC: There are procedural impacts, but nothing really
stopping us.
janina: I could get it done quickly if it remains general. I
had started completely re-writing to focus much more on
symbols.
… Symbols are a major contribution, and I think we can
emphasize that more in the existing Explainer.
sharon: We'll still have this to review on a separate branch?
janina: Yes.
matatk: Explainer can be an evergreen. TAG explainer will be
more focused each time.
janina: ACK; not looked at TAG one yet. A big concern is the
stats (finding the next billion users). NIH has some data.
… The primary use it accommodating people's inability to speak.
sharon: We're moving forward with the (public) Explainer as-is
then.
janina: Yes.
CR updates for new spec focused only on symbols
sharon: I've pulled out everything but symbols and started a
branch...
GitHub branch: [14]https://github.com/w3c/adapt/tree/
symbols-only-content
[14] https://github.com/w3c/adapt/tree/symbols-only-content
Here is a neat URL to preview the document itself for those of
us without it checked-out locally: [15]https://raw.githack.com/
w3c/adapt/symbols-only-content/content/index.html
[15] https://raw.githack.com/w3c/adapt/symbols-only-content/content/index.html
matatk: No problem editing this as there is a Tag in github.
Using githack to read the version Sharon has edited with just
the symbols.
… , fine to start pull request now if desired and everyone can
review.
Janina: are we cross ref registry spec?
sharon: Appendix A relating to exit criteria needs to be looked
at in particular.
<Roy> [16]https://github.com/w3c/adapt-registry/
[16] https://github.com/w3c/adapt-registry/
MichaelC: Roy's already prepared a draft of the registry doc.
Not too early to point to it in an Editor's Note.
<janina> +1 to registry draft rather than Bliss PDF
sharon: In the explainer, or module?
MichaelC: Both
<Roy> [17]https://w3c.github.io/adapt-registry/
[17] https://w3c.github.io/adapt-registry/
janina: And we have an agreed approach with Russell/Bliss
(focus on a subset of the vocab to start with).
… (Michael contacted Russell on this last week)
MichaelC: Also working on setting up a regular call with
Russell.
sharon: I'll add a note to this. As per last week, we're still
calling this Content module.
janina: Yes, for now at least.
… Make sure to call it a "registry specification".
becky: The example has @data-purpose in it; should probably use
the standard attribute
… (which we're not specifying yet).
becky: We can put street address per the HTML @autocomplete
attr.
… Also minor nit: 'bar' maybe shouldn't be used as primary
residence.
sharon: *agrees*
ARIA-related issues
matatk: Timers, and use case on buttons with icons and text
which we didn't support. ARIA thought there was enough
semantics. Selecting things based on their role. I have been
working on that.
… , I will write some code, and see if it works for people.
… , got the impression we should look at ARIA from TAG
perspective.
Janina: difference between ARIA action and our action.
… , our users won't be using the screen reader only
… , ie. parsing the AX tree
matatk: There is no such attribute ARIA action. there is a role
of command is an abstract. aria-action as an action instead of
us implementing it.
Janina: not sure it makes sense.
matatk: it is confusing, related topic on @rel. not sure how
this fits into ARIA could ask them for clarification.
janina: Judy suggested having TAG do a guided review of this.
matatk: guided review more explanation, seems like we are going
to have to have TAG review while we are in the room.
Sharon: who would schedule this?
janina: APA would schedule this.
sharon: Would it be helpful to have a centralized issue where
we can track this info?
janina: I think we're still a little unclear as to what we're
going to CR with; will be clearer what we want them to look at
once we're clear as to what's in the CR.
CSS (i.e., media-queries)
matatk: we can use Media Queries to replace content, animated
to non-animated, we can also remove it.
… , not sure what the difference would be to either replace or
delete.
… , Media Queries are a nested structure. so could be a good
fit. all thinking about what is critical to me and varying in
context. Some disagreement even within COGA on this. some just
can't handle except just the bare minimum, ie. critical,
everything else we can get rid of. becomes subjective when you
just want less of. We need to be mindful of the more
extensible, would you need to come up with new Media queries,
for this. We ma
y invite Andrew Kirkpatrick,
janina: I've been thinking on this too. Suggestion: depends on
how much we have in the way of semantics being presented to us.
If we get a resolution (wrt the debate in WCAG 3 right now)
that controls are more critical than photos/images, and we can
distinguish those
… we could simplify the page so that it's comprehensible.
Probably not quite that clean, becuase some controls do
different things.
… But we could potentially chunk up the page rather than have
it all there as one big blob. I think there are ways to iterate
through the complexity and let users choose on that.
matatk: Section elements could, being responsive could have
some benefits here.
janina: How do we draw a line and get a concrete question we
can ask CSSWG?
janina: Maybe we don't need to ask yet, but do need to know if
we're asking for an adapt-* prefix.
sharon: Yes, as discussed, we have this thread in parallel so
we're ready to ask about that when we come to CR.
Microformats (Matthew)
matatk: I wrote an email about this.
Email for background: [18]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/
public-adapt/2022Oct/0007.html
[18] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-adapt/2022Oct/0007.html
MichaelC: My recollection about microformats is that they have
some critical accessibility barriers in that some uses of
microformats break semantics by putting machine-readable data
in human-readable attributes.
… I think we dropped it at that, and didn't document it. If we
need to, perhaps we could, but don't think we need to spend a
lot of time looking into it. I don't think it's a viable path.
janina: Did this relate to a formal objection?
MichaelC: Not sure. Microformats are not specified in HTML.
They were widely used by the time we discussed it though.
janina: I think there was an issue with some exposing of
machine-readable content via AT. Maybe not this.
sharon: Maybe we need to update the wiki?
matatk: agrees with Michael, developers tend to like them. we
need to acknowledge that. Do you have anything we can link to,
I can dig in to see if there is any a11y issues as a result of
using this.
Requirements emerging from the work on WCAG3 (Janina)
janina: Some things being talked about strike me as could be
handled neatly by us, via CSS or attributes. E.g. error
handling: what happens when you hit the submit button and there
are errors in the page. "Fix what's highlighted in red" - the
person could be shown only the broken stuff.
… The other issue I already mentioned, wether images are
informative or not.
… They're just two issues that are amenable to what we're
talking about.
… Instead of having to make authoring guidance for WCAG, we
could just point to Adapt.
sharon: That would be something to add in future?
janina: As part of @simplification.
matatk: I personally wouldn't like this as it would change the
layout of the page with just the errors showing, but this could
be used for certain people. This could be an excellent use
case.
janina: perhaps tab / shift-tab to only show errors on the
page.
matatk: this could be done now with a browser extension.
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
[19]scribe.perl version 192 (Tue Jun 28 16:55:30 2022 UTC).
[19] https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html
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Matthew Tylee Atkinson (he/him)
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TPG Interactive
https://www.tpgi.com
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On 07/10/2022, 21:20, "Sharon D Snider" <snidersd@us.ibm.com> wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated outside Vispero. Do not click links, open attachments or forward unless you recognize the sender.
Hi all,
Please review the agenda for Monday's WAI-Adapt TF call and let us know if there are any other topics that need to be added.
Chair: Sharon
* New TAG and public explainers (Janina)
* CR updates for new spec focused only on symbols
* ARIA-related issues
* CSS (i.e., media-queries)
* Microformats (Matthew)
* Requirements emerging from the work on WCAG3 (Janina)
* WHATWG – reserve “adapt-“ prefix (Do we go to symbols CR with data- or adapt-?)
* BCI Registry Specification
* How do we show TAG the Next billion users.
* Respond to issue #203 (Janina)
* Purpose - Can we add to the list of WCAG auto-complete attributes?
* Distraction - Write up use cases that don't touch advertising.
* Discuss @rel vs. purpose/destination/action -- add to the explainer
* Content Module Implementations Status, focus on new candidates
The teleconference information is at: call info - adapt <https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_adapt>
Time:
* 10:00 a.m. Eastern
* 05:00 p.m. IS
* 03:00 p.m. UK
IRC access:
* An IRC (Internet Relay Chat) channel will be available during the call at: https://irc.w3.org/?channels= <http://irc.w3.org/?channels=adapt>adapt
* The server is irc.w3.org <https://irc.w3.org/>
* The port number is 6665
* The channel is #adapt.
* You can write any name as a nickname
Resources and useful links:
* Wiki <https://t.sidekickopen90.com/s3t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7kF8cFFTBW4T_qld2zGCwVN8Jbw_8QsRtKVn1vXj1p1kknW16gGBN41Jd6G101?te=W3R5hFj4cm2zwW4mKLS-4mbkbhW49Ldrp2nQ-x1W30mhG94fDYzLW1GBcSW3F6jV_W45NqmX43TBFHW3T6jkg3T1McJf4mCW9mV3&si=8000000004174048&pi=8e540703-aba8-4282-85a0-c6cb1d664a5f>; - this page has links to all our work
* Mailing list archives <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-adapt/>
* Web-Based Surveys (WBS) <https://t.sidekickopen90.com/s3t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7kF8cFFTBW4T_qld2zGCwVN8Jbw_8QsRtKVn1vXj1p1kknW16gGBN41Jd6G101?te=W3R5hFj4cm2zwW4mKLS-4mbkbhW49LdqK1N4hm1W1N81nQ3Cfv3hw1N4K5047V2&si=8000000004174048&pi=8e540703-aba8-4282-85a0-c6cb1d664a5f>
* Adapt source repository issue tracker <https://t.sidekickopen90.com/s3t/c/5/f18dQhb0S7kF8cFFTBW4T_qld2zGCwVN8Jbw_8QsRtKVn1vXj1p1kknW16gGBN41Jd6G101?te=W3R5hFj4cm2zwW3P28X24hCPvhW43T4Pc1Vp7RpW3H3bfK1LyzF74W1vp1&si=8000000004174048&pi=8e540703-aba8-4282-85a0-c6cb1d664a5f>
Scribing and Participation Tips –http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/Teleconference_cheat_sheet
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Regards,
Sharon Snider
IBM Design ► IBM Accessibility Team(512)965-3957
www.ibm.com/able <https://www.ibm.com/able> and w3.ibm.com/able <https://w3.ibm.com/able>
Regards,
Sharon Snider
IBM Design ► IBM Accessibility Team
(512)965-3957
www.ibm.com/able <https://www.ibm.com/able> and w3.ibm.com/able <https://w3.ibm.com/able>
Received on Monday, 10 October 2022 15:16:54 UTC