- From: Adrien de Croy <adrien@qbik.com>
- Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2010 00:50:36 +1300
- To: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
- CC: HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>, Alex Rousskov <rousskov@measurement-factory.com>, Roy Fielding <fielding@gbiv.com>
I'd suggest removing the word "local" in all cases referring to time.
Since all date/times are in UTC (absolute time), the word local may
potentially confuse implementors into using a local time (non UTC time)
which breaks things like apparent_age.
Regards
Adrien
Mark Nottingham wrote:
> We haven't heard back from Alex, and the other issue I mentioned didn't seem to get enough support to move on. So, I suggest we do the conservative thing:
>
> Current text:
>
>> age_value - Age header field-value received with the response
>> date_value - Date header field-value received with the response
>> request_time - local time when the cache made the request
>> resulting in the stored response
>> response_time - local time when the cache received the response
>> now - current local time
>>
>> apparent_age = max(0, response_time - date_value);
>> corrected_received_age = max(apparent_age, age_value);
>> response_delay = response_time - request_time;
>> corrected_initial_age = corrected_received_age + response_delay;
>> resident_time = now - response_time;
>> current_age = corrected_initial_age + resident_time;
>>
>
> Replacement text:
>
>> age_value - Age header field-value received with the response;
>> 0 if not available.
>> date_value - Date header field-value received with the response;
>> see [ref] for requirements regarding responses
>> without a date_value.
>> request_time - local time when the cache made the request
>> resulting in the stored response
>> response_time - local time when the cache received the response
>> now - current local time
>>
>> apparent_age = max(0, response_time - date_value);
>> response_delay = response_time - request_time;
>> corrected_initial_age = max(apparent_age, age_value + response_delay)
>> resident_time = now - response_time;
>> current_age = corrected_initial_age + resident_time;
>>
>
> Comments?
>
>
>
> On 14/10/2009, at 8:31 PM, Mark Nottingham wrote:
>
>
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> We put this on the HTTPbis issues list a while ago <http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/httpbis/trac/ticket/29>, and I've discussed it with a few folks F2F, but AFAICT it hasn't been discussed on-list.
>>
>> In a nutshell, I think you're correct that there's a problem here, but your proposal:
>>
>>
>>> creation_time = min(date_value, request_time - age_value);
>>> current_age = now - creation_time;
>>>
>> has a few (small-ish) issues.
>>
>> 1) The corrected_received_age's subtraction of the date_value from now has the (intended, I assume) effect of accounting for upstream HTTP/1.0 caches that don't append an Age header. Your proposal doesn't do this.
>>
>> This is already being diccussed on-list (see recent thread "cache freshness / age calcs"), and may go away anyway. Your input there would be appreciated.
>>
>> 2) The behaviour when date_value isn't present isn't specified; we could address this in prose, but it would be awkward.
>>
>> This could probably be worked around by either specifying a slightly more complex formula, or specifying that when the Date header isn't present, a completely separate (and presumably much simpler) formula is to be used.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> On 31/08/2002, at 2:59 AM, Alex Rousskov wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> We are testing a couple of RFC 2616 MUSTs related to
>>> current_age calculation. Many proxies violate a subset of test cases
>>> that includes an artificial proxy-to-server delay. Looking at the
>>> results, I think that the proxies are doing the "right thing" and the
>>> RFC has a problem.
>>>
>>> I will start with a specific example when current_age formula
>>> from the RFC yields a way-too-conservative and unnatural result (100%
>>> error). I will then describe the problem and suggest a fix.
>>>
>>> I understand that a way-too-conservative age does not lead to
>>> stale documents being returned. However, if we want proxies to be
>>> compliant, we may want to fix/mention the problem in the errata or
>>> elsewhere. Otherwise, the more problems like that are left unaddressed
>>> (ignored), the more difficult it would be to convince implementors to
>>> pay attention to the RFC.
>>>
>>> Perhaps I got it all wrong, please check!
>>>
>>>
>>> A simple example
>>> ----------------
>>>
>>> Here is a real and simple example that detected the problem with the
>>> original current_age formula from "13.2.3 Age Calculations". The
>>> absolute values of timestamps below ("0" and "7") have no
>>> significance.
>>>
>>> time event
>>> ---- ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 0.0 client request generated
>>> 0.0 client request reached the proxy, it is a MISS
>>> 0.0 proxy request to origin server is generated
>>> 0.0 proxy request reached the origin server
>>> 0.0 server response generated with Date correctly set to 0, no Age header
>>> -- a network delay of 7 seconds --
>>> 7.0 server response reached the proxy
>>> 7.0 proxy cached the response
>>> 7.0 proxy forwarded the response
>>> 7.0 the response reached the client
>>> 7.0 another client request for the same URL generated
>>> 7.0 client request reached the proxy, it is a HIT
>>> 7.0 proxy must compute Age header value, see math below
>>>
>>> Following RFC 2616:
>>>
>>> age_value = 0 (the cached response has no Age header)
>>> date_value = 0 (the cached response has Date set to 0)
>>> request_time = 0 (the proxy generated request at time 0)
>>> response_time = 7 (the proxy received response at time 7)
>>> now = 7 (the current time is 7)
>>>
>>> apparent_age = max(0, response_time - date_value) = 7
>>> corrected_received_age = max(apparent_age, age_value) = 7
>>> response_delay = response_time - request_time = 7
>>> corrected_initial_age = corrected_received_age + response_delay = 14
>>> resident_time = now - response_time = 0
>>> current_age = corrected_initial_age + resident_time = 14
>>>
>>> The true age is, of course, 7 and not 14. The above formulas just double true
>>> current age in the case of a network delay between the proxy and the origin
>>> server. The fixed formula (see below for the discussion) does not:
>>>
>>> current_age = now - min(date_value, request_time - age_value) =
>>> = 7 - max(0, 0 - 0) = 7
>>>
>>> N.B. If the proxy computes Age header for misses and uses that as
>>> age_value when serving hits, the formulas yield the same result.
>>>
>>>
>>> The Problem
>>> -----------
>>>
>>> RFC 2616 says:
>>>
>>> Because the request that resulted in the returned Age value must have
>>> been initiated prior to that Age value's generation, we can correct
>>> for delays imposed by the network by recording the time at which the
>>> request was initiated. Then, when an Age value is received, it MUST
>>> be interpreted relative to the time the request was initiated...
>>> So, we compute:
>>>
>>> corrected_initial_age = corrected_received_age
>>> + (now - request_time)
>>>
>>> I suspect the formula does not match the true intent of the RFC
>>> authors. I believe that corrected_initial_age formula counts
>>> server-to-client delays twice. It does that because the
>>> corrected_received_age component already accounts for one
>>> server-to-client delay. Here is an annotated definition from the RFC:
>>>
>>> corrected_received_age = max(
>>> now - date_value, # trust the clock (includes server-to-client delay!)
>>> age_value) # all-HTTP/1.1 paths (no server-to-client delay)
>>>
>>> I think it is possible to fix the corrected_initial_age formula to
>>> match the intent (note this is the *initial* not *received* age):
>>>
>>> corrected_initial_age = max(
>>> now - date_value, # trust the clock (includes delays)
>>> age_value + now - request_time) # trust Age, add network delays
>>>
>>> There is no need for corrected_received_age.
>>>
>>>
>>> Moreover, it looks ALL the formulas computing current_age go away with
>>> the above new corrected_initial_age definition as long as "now" is
>>> still defined as "the current time" (i.e., the time when current_age
>>> is calculated):
>>>
>>> current_age = corrected_initial_age
>>>
>>> So, we end up with a single formula for all cases and all times:
>>>
>>> current_age = max(now - date_value, age_value + now - request_time) =
>>> = now - min(date_value, request_time - age_value)
>>>
>>> It even has a clear physical meaning -- the min() part is the conservative
>>> estimate of object creation time. We could rewrite for clarity:
>>>
>>> creation_time = min(date_value, request_time - age_value);
>>> current_age = now - creation_time;
>>>
>>>
>>> Am I missing something important here? If I am right, and the current
>>> formulas count server-to-client delays twice, is it worth mentioning
>>> in the errata or elsewhere as a bug? Or should we insist that
>>> implementations use current_age calculation from the RFC anyway?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Alex.
>>>
>>> --
>>> | HTTP performance - Web Polygraph benchmark
>>> www.measurement-factory.com | HTTP compliance+ - Co-Advisor test suite
>>> | all of the above - PolyBox appliance
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Mark Nottingham http://www.mnot.net/
>
>
>
--
Adrien de Croy - WinGate Proxy Server - http://www.wingate.com
Received on Monday, 8 March 2010 11:51:17 UTC