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Minutes of 25 July 2002 WS Description WG teleconference

From: Sedukhin, Igor <Igor.Sedukhin@ca.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:45:04 -0400
Message-ID: <849C1D32E4C7924F854D8A0356C72A9E0607E44F@usilms08.ca.com>
To: www-ws-desc@w3.org
Cc: Jonathan Marsh <jmarsh@microsoft.com>

W3C Web Services Description Working Group Teleconference 7/25/2002
Minutes of Meeting

 David Booth            W3C
 Allen Brookes          Rogue Wave Software
 Roberto Chinnici       Sun Microsystems
 (x:40) Glen Daniels    Macromedia
 Youenn Fablet          Canon
 Sandeep Kumar          Cisco Systems
 Philippe Le Hégaret    W3C
 Steve Lind             AT&T
 Jonathan Marsh         Chair (Microsoft)
 Dale Moberg            Cyclone Commerce
 Don Mullen             Tibco
 Arthur Ryman           IBM
 Waqar Sadiq            Electronic Data Systems
 Adi Sakala             IONA Technologies
 Jeffrey Schlimmer      Microsoft
 Igor Sedukhin          Computer Associates
 William Stumbo         Xerox
 Jerry Thrasher         Lexmark
 William Vambenepe      Hewlett-Packard
 Sanjiva Weerawarana    IBM
 Joyce Yang             Oracle

 Michael Champion       Software AG
 Laurent De Teneuille   L'Echangeur
 Tim Finin              University of Maryland
 Steve Graham           Global Grid Forum
 Martin Gudgin          Microsoft
 Tom Jordahl            Macromedia
 Jacek Kopecky          Systinet
 Dan Kulp               IONA
 Kevin Canyang Liu      SAP
 Michael Mealling       Verisign
 Jeff Mischkinsky       Oracle
 Jean-Jacques Moreau    Canon
 Johan Pauhlsson        L'Echangeur
 Stefano Pogliani       Sun
 Jochen Ruetschlin      DaimlerChrysler Research and Technology
 Daniel Schutzer        Citigroup
 Dave Solo              Citigroup
 Steve Tuecke           Global Grid Forum
 Don Wright             Lexmark
 Prasad Yendluri        webMethods, Inc.

 Mike Ballantyne        Electronic Data Systems
 Mike Davoren           W. W. Grainger
 Dietmar Gaertner       Software AG
 Amelia Lewis           Tibco
 Michael Mahan          Nokia
 Pallavi Malu           Intel
 Mike McHugh            W. W. Grainger
 Sandra Swearingen      U.S. Department of Defense, U.S. Air Force
 Barbara Zengler        DaimlerChrysler Research and Technology


1.  Scribe: Igor Sedukhin

2.  Welcome new member: Amelia Lewis of TIBCO.

3.  Approval of minutes [3].

[3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0113.html
    Johan Pauhlsson and Jeff Mischkinsky sent late regrets.

JM: minutes approved 

4.  Review of Action items.
PENDING  2002-07-25: GlenD and JJM to write up proposal for handling 
                     MEPs with regard to Soap	
PENDING  2002-07-25: GLEN & Sanjiva to write up the comment about MEPs
                     & features to XMLP group
DONE [4] 2002-07-25: JM to forward minutes to public list PENDING  2002-07-25: GlenD to send DavidB details on hosting November
PENDING  2002-07-25: JM to decide potential November F2F overlap on Wed
                     Nov 13 with ChrisF
NONE     2002-07-25: everybody to review the comments and JM to forward
                     the comments to XMLP
PENDING  2002-07-25: Jeffrey & Gudge to flesh out a proposal for
                     omitting operation from soap binding
DONE [5] 2002-07-25: Roberto to write proposal for defaults in soap
DONE     2002-07-25: JM to remove Item 19 for 07/25/2002 Conf Call
DONE     2002-07-25: JM try to consolidate Issue 5 & 31 for 07/25/2002 
                     Conf Call

[4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0120.html
[5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0105.html

5.  Ghost messages.  Some messages stuck in the ether since the FTF have just arrived [5, 6, 7, 8].  Spooky!

[5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0109.html
[6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0110.html
[7] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0111.html
[8] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0112.html 

[nothing on record...]

6.  SOAP 1.2 Last Call [9, 10, 11] call for review [12].  Awaiting text from Glen and/or Sanjiva.  Status?

[9] http://www.w3.org/TR/soap12-part0/ 
[10] http://www.w3.org/TR/soap12-part1/ 
[11] http://www.w3.org/TR/soap12-part2/ 
[12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0001.html

[nothing on record...]

7.  SOAP TF Status?  Need more meetings?  Is [13] the output? Conclusions so far:
  (1) We need to be able to express MEPs in the SOAP binding.
  (2) The ability to describe features and MEPs at the abstract level
      would be a good thing, but right now we don't know how much effort

      it would take to do so.
  (3) Feedback to XMLP WG: lack of something (such as a header) to
      express the MEP in use.  (Glen: perhaps we should say that, for 
      each binding, there must be a way to identify unambiguously the 
      MEP in use; of course, for bindings that support just one MEP 
      that's a no-op).
  (4) Currently, there is no well-defined one-way MEP.

[13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0034.html

JM: postpone and take status from e-mail as nobody from SOAP TF is on the call... 

8.  New Issues
    Paul Prescod: http:operation/@location should be optional [14]

[14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0107.html

[nothing recorded...]

9. Proposal: Hoisting SOAP binding attributes [15]
Awaiting amendment from Roberto.

[15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0058.html

JM: Roberto's amendment: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0105.html
Jeffrey: generally ok to Roberto's proposal on SOAP binding attributes 
Jeffsch: makes point about Jacek's issue on optional attributes 
JM: accept amended Roberto's proposal and include an open issue 

10. Issue 51: Asymmetry between soap:body and soap:header [16].  Thread starts at [17].

[16] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/2/06/issues.html#x51
[17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0048.html

DonM: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0049.html 
JM: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0081.html 
JM: postpone issue 51, wait for Kevin to defend it 

11. Issue 25: Interaction between W3C XML Schema and SOAP Data Model 
    Gudge's explains at [18], Roberto's options at [19].

[18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0186.html
[19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0071.html

JM: not much progress 
?: "big issue"
JM: prepare this one for F2F... 
sanjiva: has some thoughts on this 
sanjiva: wants presentation at F2F 

12. Issue 5: EncodingStyle
    Issue 30: soap:body encodingStyle 
    Dietmar's soaptf proposal for encoding and use attributes. [20]
    Arthur's recommendations. [21, 22]

[20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2002Jul/0016.html 
[21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0178.html
[22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0178.html

JM: how different are the proposals? 
arthur: will read through and post a note to the list 
JM: non controversial issue, continue on it 

13. Issue 18: Default for transport of <soap:binding> [23]. Jeffrey's proposal at [24].

 [23] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/issues/wsd-issues.html#x18
 [24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0122.html

Jeffrey: reiterating that WSDL spec is inconsistent about the transport 
Jeffrey: proposes to settle on HTTP 1.0 or 1.1 in the spec 
Jeffrey: transport attribute is ambiguous with regard to binding
[scribe could hardly follow the discussion here...]
sanjiva: concerned with transport attribute on the binding. There is redundant information because URL implies the HTTP transport already. The only difference is HTTP 1.1 or 1.0 
Jeffrey: there may be other binding that may need transport attribute 
sanjiva: copy binding style... 
Jeffrey: attribute has same value 
sanjiva: inherit binding namespace and change transport value 
JM: keep transport attribute, not mandatory, should we include version? 
sanjiva: keep attribute, does not like that URI implies transport either 
sanjiva: ok to close the issue 
JM: redundant info is ok for it is easy to access 
roberto: what to do for HTTPS 
adi: URL to https: and transport attribute to HTTP 
JM: is the attribute really redundant then?
JM: issue is beyond unclarity of the spec 
JM: close the issue 18, have another one for the attribute itself 
ACTION: Don Mullen to write up an issue on transport attribute 
JM: issue 18 resolution: transport is mandatory 
Glen: is the transport attribute same as in SOAP?
Glen: are the URIs for transport same, can we use same URIs? 
JM: this is different issue, someone take an action... 
JM: these issues are editorial clarifications, then look at the other issues after... 
ACTION: Glen write up an issue on transport URIs compliance with SOAP 
JM: what's issue 28 then, is it same as Glen's 
sanjiva: yes it looks same... 
jeffrey: not the value of transport attribute, is it?
Glen: these URIs are not necessarily namespaces, may be considered as identifying tags 
jeffrey: are these general or the ones from SOAP spec?
Glen: need a place in WSDL to relate to SOAP 1.2 transports 
roberto: SOAP binding precludes HTTPS 
Glen: need an HHTPS binding or include security attribute in HTTP binding 
Glen: follow SOAP 1.2 to support SOAP over SSL... 
Glen: we need to do something about HHTPS 
JM: CG has to consider who does HTTPS binding
Glen: have a binding for HTTPS and give it a URI 
roberto: agrees 
sanjiva: plain it for F2F, may be 
JM: ad-hoc discussion on the "bridge", appoint task force... 
JM: plan for august 1st informal call then 
JM: what's the scope of that discussion?
JM: don't close issue 28 
JM: next week: issue 28 and HTTPS 
sanjiva: start next week, continue at F2F though 
Glen: start with transport 
JM: it's an official vacation, keep the discussion informal 
Glen: small TF can generate proposals 
JM: proposal for bindings compatibility with SOAP 1.2 then?
Glen: ok 
Don: agrees 
JM: form a TF: Glen, Sanjiva, Don, anyone else on august 1st 
JM: topic: SOAP binding mov to SOAP 1.2 
Philippe: first TF teleconf, next week, same bridge, same time

14.  Proposal for Abstract Model [25, 26].  Status?

[25] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/wsdl12/wsdl12.am.xml
[26] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/wsdl12/wsdl12.am.html

ACTION: Sanjiva and Gudge to work on the strategy on combining the AM 
JM: get editorial changes into the draft 
Sajniva: need to work on the proposal doc yet 
JM: editors should incorporate the material, then go by the issues 
Sanjiva: published draft has a model, but it its not exactly compatible with AM 
JM: does anyone object incorporating Gudge's proposal into the WD? 
JM: no objections
ACTION: Sanjiva to incorporate Gudge's proposal into the WD 

15.  Sanjiva's binding proposal [27].

[27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0117.html

Sanjiva: (1) serviceTypes is a group of portTypes (2) tackle the address concept at the WSDL level 
Sanjiva: reiterating the proposal 
Jacek: does not see what has to be fixed in regards to bindings in WSDL 1.1.
JM: issue has to be discussed more...
JM: use august to prepare for F2F...  

[meeting is over...]
SCRIBE END 2002-07-25 @ 16:31:34 by Igor Sedukhin
Received on Wednesday, 31 July 2002 23:01:11 UTC

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