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Minutes 18 July 2002 WS Desc telcon

From: Sakala, Adinarayana <Adi.Sakala@iona.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:29:56 -0400
Message-ID: <C142FEA7FA267C4E883AABCDA9F3979B5FA27B@amereast-ems1.IONAGLOBAL.COM>
To: <www-ws-desc@w3.org>
Cc: <jmarsh@microsoft.com>

W3c Web Services Description Teleconference 7/18/2002
      Minutes of Meeting

 David Booth            W3C
 Allen Brookes          Rogue Wave Software
 Roberto Chinnici       Sun Microsystems
 Glen Daniels           Macromedia
 Youenn Fablet          Canon
 Martin Gudgin          Microsoft
 Tom Jordahl            Macromedia
 Jacek Kopecky          Systinet
 Sandeep Kumar          Cisco Systems
 Philippe Le Hégaret    W3C
 Steve Lind             AT&T
 Kevin Canyang Liu      SAP
 Jonathan Marsh         Chair (Microsoft)
 Dale Moberg            Cyclone Commerce
 Jean-Jacques Moreau    Canon
 Don Mullen             Tibco
 Jochen Ruetschlin      DaimlerChrysler Research and Technology
 Adi Sakala             IONA Technologies
 Jeffrey Schlimmer      Microsoft
 Igor Sedukhin          Computer Associates
 William Stumbo         Xerox
 Jerry Thrasher         Lexmark
 Steve Tuecke           Global Grid Forum
 Sanjiva Weerawarana    IBM
 Prasad Yendluri        webMethods, Inc.

 Michael Champion       Software AG
 Laurent De Teneuille   L'Echangeur
 Tim Finin              University of Maryland
 Dietmar Gaertner       Software AG
 Dan Kulp               IONA
 Michael Mealling       Verisign
 Stefano Pogliani       Sun
 Arthur Ryman           IBM
 Waqar Sadiq            Electronic Data Systems
 Daniel Schutzer        Citigroup
 Dave Solo              Citigroup
 William Vambenepe      Hewlett-Packard
 Don Wright             Lexmark
 Joyce Yang             Oracle

 Mike Ballantyne        Electronic Data Systems
 Mike Davoren           W. W. Grainger
 Steve Graham           Global Grid Forum
 Michael Mahan          Nokia
 Pallavi Malu           Intel
 Mike McHugh            W. W. Grainger
 Jeff Mischkinsky       Oracle
 Johan Pauhlsson        L'Echangeur
 Sandra Swearingen      U.S. Department of Defense, U.S. Air Force
 Barbara Zengler        DaimlerChrysler Research and Technology


1.  Minute Taker: Adi Sakala

2.  Approval of minutes [3].
[3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0243.html

3.  Review of Action items.
     2002-06-20: Jean-J. Analyze whether WSD should gneralize a
                 mechanism to provide protocol headers. This was 
                 discussed as part of 6d. Issue: SOAPAction2 #2
                 actor URI in WSDL? #17
     2002-06-20: JeffS Champion for 6h. Issue: Default for transport 
                 of <soap:binding> #18
[4]  2002-06-27: JM will think about what should be done with the
                 suggestion for a note or appendix on 1.2 -> 1.2 transition.
     2002-07-11: Glen to ping Tom on 
[5]  2002-07-11: Roberto to inumerate three options on Issue 25 and 
              post to email
PEND 2002-07-11: DavidB to do Solicit/Response presentation at September
     2002-07-11: Sanjiva to post email on issues 6a, 41

[4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0090.html
[5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0071.html

4. SOAP 1.2 support TF [6]. Conclusions:
  (1) We need to be able to express MEPs in the SOAP binding.
  (2) The ability to describe features and MEPs at the abstract level
      be a good thing, but right now we don't know how much effort it
      take to do so.
  (3) Feedback to XMLP WG: lack of something (such as a header) to
      the MEP in use.  (Glen: perhaps we should say that, for each
      there must be a way to identify unambiguously the MEP in use; of 
      course, for bindings that support just one MEP that's a no-op).
  (4) Currently, there is no well-defined one-way MEP.
	4a: Where should minutes go?

	sanjiva: if we have to support full REST style of WS we have to look into new way of sending responses may be like xlink
	dbooth: Sanjiva, can you post a URL in IRC?
	sanjiva: I don't remember the URL; I will ask Sam to post it to the www-ws-desc list. Sorry.
	jj: Is xlink related SOAP MEP's
	adisakala: do we have a requirement to support REST
	jack: if we use something with HTTP we should not misuse it.
	glen: we should think about supporting what already exists in soap1.2
	jm: we should discuss this proposal in F2F
	sanjiva: soap request, response map is not necessarily same as WSDL request, response map.
	dbooth: s/map/MEP/
	sanjiva: soap binding should be used to indicate the soap maps
	Gudge wonders if actually what we need IS a map
	dbooth: we should make it as a comment rather than a question. If there is a question it means spec is not clear.
	jj: what happens after posting this comment to XMLP group.
	glen: we should post this comment to both XMLP & Architecture.
	sanjiva: I just posted a note with pointers to the soap-response MEP stuff I was trying to explain (poorly). Its at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0099.html

ACTION: GlenD and JJM to write up proposal for handling MEPs with regard to Soap	
ACTION: GLEN & Sanjiva to write up the comment about Maps & features to XMLP group
ACTION: JM to forward minutes to public list

5.  SOAP 1.2 Last Call [7, 8, 9] call for review [10].  Need volunteer
to consolidate our official comments for approval by July 18th.
	ACTION: everybody to review the comments and JM to forward the comments to XMLP

6.  New Issues
    - none -

7.  Issue: optional "name" attribute of <definition>
    Sanjiva's proposal to remove this attribute [11].  Waiting for Tom
to have one more chance to raise objections.

	Tom: why are we removing name attribute on <definitions>
	JacekK: but the name doesn't help humans - service name is more useful IMHO
	JM: Straw poll: Option 1: Remove name attribute.  Option 2: Give it a meaning

	JM: to have appendix for each part of spec listing all the changes
	RESOLVED ISSUE: Optional "name" attribute of <definition> resolved to be REMOVED
8.  Issue: Overloading operations.
    Split issue into two [12].
    Jonathan's proposal for remaining part [13].

	RESOLVED ISSUE: Overloading operations - CLOSED accepting the JM's proposal

[12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0247.html
[13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0090.html

9.  Abstract Model [14, 15].  Introduction by Gudge [16] and initial

	JacekK: sorry, haven't gotten to the AM yet, too much work on SOAP 1.2 LC and implementation
	sanjiva: AM is the spec.
	JM: sometime we have to decide if we are going to bless AM's approach
	sanjiva: review AM and try to converge both versions

10. (Issue # missing) Hoisting SOAP binding attributes [17]
Three +1s and one note of caution [18]

	jack: agree with the proposal for default, but dont agree with omitting operations from binding
	roberto: we should have attributes like encodingstyledefault, namespacedefault to capture most of the use cases

ACTION: Jeffrey & Gudge to flush out a proposal for omitting operation from soap binding
ACTION: roberto to write proposal for defaults in soap binding
ACTION: to remove Item 19 for next week
ACTION: try to consolidate Issue 5 & 31 for next week

11. Proposal for encoding and use attributes. [19]

[19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2002Jul/0016.html

16. Issue 5: EncodingStyle.
    Arthur recommends closing as a dupe of Issue #30. [20]

[20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0178.html

17. Issue 25: Interaction between W3C XML Schema and SOAP Data Model 
    Gudge's explains at [21], Roberto's options at [22].

[21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0186.html
[22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0071.html

18. Issue 30: soap:body encodingStyle
    Arthur's proposal [23]

[23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0178.html

Issues for future telcons:

19. Issue service-type:  [24] Waiting on Abstract Component work to
provide a more concrete proposal.

[24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0002.html

20. Issue remove-solicit-response-operations: Removing solicit-response
and notifications.  [25] Scheduled for FTF.

[25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0109.html

21. HTTP Binding Issues (6a, 41)
    Jeffrey recommends no change [26].  Sanjiva is mulling this over

[26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jun/0102.html
[27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2002Jul/0067.html

- Jonathan


Summary of Action Items:

2002-07-25: GlenD and JJM to write up proposal for handling MEPs with regard to Soap	
2002-07-25: GLEN & Sanjiva to write up the comment about Maps & features to XMLP group
2002-07-25: JM to forward minutes to public list
2002-07-25: GlenD to send DavidB details on hosting November F2F
2002-07-25: JM to decide potential November F2F overlap on Wed Nov 13 with ChrisF
2002-07-25: everybody to review the comments and JM to forward the comments to XMLP
2002-07-25: Jeffrey & Gudge to flush out a proposal for omitting operation from soap binding
2002-07-25: roberto to write proposal for defaults in soap binding
2002-07-25: to remove Item 19 for 07/25/2002 Conf Call
2002-07-25: try to consolidate Issue 5 & 31 for 07/25/2002 Conf Call

Adi Sakala
Senior Software Engineer
XMLBus Development
200 West Street
Waltham, MA 02451
USA Tel (781) 902-8161
Fax (781) 902-8001
Received on Tuesday, 23 July 2002 14:30:28 UTC

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