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Re: an action item :)

From: Emmanuelle Gutiérrez y Restrepo <emmanuelle@teleline.es>
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 00:02:25 +0200
Message-ID: <009e01c10e42$ff8ac740$2f0e04d5@teleline.es>
To: <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Constantly I should speak with journalists, executives and Webmasters
completely unaware to the disability. They begin to pay attention and to
consider to apply the guidelines when I use examples of situations in those
that themselves can be.
As I have said before, I find well to eliminate in the introduction of the
guidelines the explanation of the environmental factors, whenever they are
explained in another document that can be edited by the EO group.
Once again, I agree since all you agree.

Regards,
Emmanuelle

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anne Pemberton" <apembert@erols.com>
To: "'Emmanuelle Gutierrez y Restrepo'" <emmanuelle@teleline.es>; "Lisa
Seeman" <lseeman@globalformats.com>; <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 10:32 PM
Subject: RE: an action item :)


> Emmanuelle,
>
> The usual rules will certainly satisfy some environmental situations, but
> that is not their intent. And all environmental situations are unlikely to
> be covered by the guidelines.  I don't think that describing uses outside
> of those which enable actual disabled persons to better utilize the
> Internet, will "sell" the guidelines any better than because your neighbor
> who is ***** may want to visit your page... But that is my opinion, and
you
> being in another part of the planet, may see it differently.
>
> Anne Pemberton
> apembert@erols.com
> http://www.erols.com/stevepem
> http://www.geocities.com/apembert45
>
> On Monday, July 16, 2001 3:16 PM, Emmanuelle Gutierrez y Restrepo
> [SMTP:emmanuelle@teleline.es] wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > In fact, the question that I tried to highlight is that, applying the
> usual
> > rules covers the external factors. That which can suppose future uses of
> > Internet under non usual conditions, at the moment.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Emmanuelle
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Anne Pemberton" <apembert@erols.com>
> > To: "'Emmanuelle Gutierrez y Restrepo'" <emmanuelle@teleline.es>; "Lisa
> > Seeman" <lseeman@globalformats.com>; <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 8:48 PM
> > Subject: RE: an action item :)
> >
> >
> > > Emmanuelle,
> > >
> > > Handicapping environmental conditions are controllable at the user
> level
> > > more efficiently than at the page author level. If a kiosk is located
> in
> > an
> > > noisy location, it should be provided with a personal hearing device
> > > (movable speaker, earphones, etc.)  There is nothing the page author
> can
> > do
> > > to improve the situation other than comply with the usual guidelines.
>  If
> > > the page or kiosk interface is provided in visible print, it should
> also
> > > provide it in audio and in graphics. What else would you have a page
> > author
> > > do?
> > >
> > > As to driving --- if your hands are tied up, your mind should be on
> what
> > > you're doing. By the way, there is an inexpensive device advertised on
> tv,
> > > to "convert" your cell phone to a hands-free use. Advertises that it
> works
> > > as well as more expensive systems, so there must be a variety of
> products
> > > available already to compensate for this environmental handicapping
> > > condition.
> > >
> > > But the most effective answer to temporarily disabling environmental
> > > conditions is either to modify the hardware to accommodate if it is a
> > > regularly-occuring condition, or wait and use the Internet/affected
> sites,
> > > at a more appropriate time and place.
> > >
> > > Anne
> > >
> > > Anne
> > >
> > > Anne Pemberton
> > > apembert@erols.com
> > > http://www.erols.com/stevepem
> > > http://www.geocities.com/apembert45
> > >
> > > On Monday, July 16, 2001 12:24 PM, Emmanuelle Gutierrez y Restrepo
> > > [SMTP:emmanuelle@teleline.es] wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I have not surely known how to choose the examples. But I don't
> > > understand
> > > > the interest to eliminate the external factors since, if the
> guidelines
> > > keep
> > > > in mind to people with disability, automatically, they cover the
> > > necessities
> > > > of people that are in a handicaped situation.
> > > > I agree with Anne in that it is dangerous to drive and to assist to
> > > another
> > > > task at the same time. In Spain it is forbidden to use the mobile
> > > telephone
> > > > while he/she is driving. But I have understood that there are some
> > > countries
> > > > in those that there are highways in those that it is not necessary
> that
> > > the
> > > > driver maintains all his attention and, also, I know that systems of
> > > > automatic conduction are designing. Anyway it can be a possible
> > situation
> > > in
> > > > the future, that some will consider important to keep in mind and
> other
> > > not.
> > > > But if all agree on eliminating the external factors, me too.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Emmanuelle
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Anne Pemberton" <apembert@erols.com>
> > > > To: "'Emmanuelle Gutierrez y Restrepo'" <emmanuelle@teleline.es>;
> "Lisa
> > > > Seeman" <lseeman@globalformats.com>; <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 3:53 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: an action item :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Emmanuelle,
> > > > >
> > > > > The examples you used are unique uses of the Internet and would
not
> > > apply
> > > > > to all web pages on the Internet - only those to be used in those
> > > unique
> > > > > situations. I am strongly opposed to ANY accommodation that
> encourages
> > > the
> > > > > user to be distracted while driving a vehicle on the same road
with
> > me!
> > > If
> > > > > you HAVE to consult the Internet while you are driving, at least
> have
> > > the
> > > > > sense to pull off the road and do your thing, then get back on the
> > > road.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anne
> > > > >
> > > > > On Monday, July 16, 2001 7:32 AM, Emmanuelle Gutierrez y Restrepo
> > > > > [SMTP:emmanuelle@teleline.es] wrote:
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The External Factors that I have mentioned, are not limited to a
> > > noisy
> > > > or
> > > > > > not well illuminated atmosphere neither they refer to situations
> in
> > > > those
> > > > > > that the user can make something to change them.
> > > > > > Let us think of a person that uses a kiosk in an airport or in
> that
> > > that
> > > > > > drives their car and at the same time he/she has to use Internet
> or
> > > in
> > > > > any
> > > > > > situation in the one that the hands or the user's senses are
> > > hindered.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the main objective of the guidelines is people with
> disability,
> > > then
> > > > > they
> > > > > > should keep in mind the handicap situation in that any person
can
> > be.
> > > > > Unless
> > > > > > you want to follow a "disability" definition different from the
> > > > > conventional
> > > > > > one internationally for the WHO.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't believe that to include external factors reduces the
> > > importance
> > > > > of
> > > > > > the guidelines, on the contrary, I believe that for some
> managers,
> > > not
> > > > > very
> > > > > > sensitive to the necessities of people with disabilities, this
> focus
> > > ago
> > > > > > more attractive the necessity to implement them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Of course that it is a work of EO to explain the reasons to
apply
> > the
> > > > > > guidelines, but I believe that in the introduction it should be
> > > > > mentioned,
> > > > > > at least, the factors that the guidelines are kept in mind or
> that
> > > they
> > > > > > cover.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > > Emmanuelle
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Lisa Seeman" <lseeman@globalformats.com>
> > > > > > To: <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 9:57 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: an action item :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think Emmanuelle has made a point of other advantages of
> > > following
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > guidelines. That in following them the site will be useable
and
> > > > helpful
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > "the noisy or
> > > > > > > not well illuminated atmospheres".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This, I think, is just usability and not about making content
> > > > > > inaccessible.
> > > > > > > Now our guidelines will help these situations, but they are
not
> > (in
> > > my
> > > > > > > opinion) what they were for. Therefore I prefer to not include
> > > these
> > > > > > > usability but not accessibility points. I think that is
belongs
> > > with
> > > > > EO,
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > > another good reason for implementing the guidelines.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think making people think that these guideline include
things
> to
> > > > help
> > > > > > > people in a noisy room, will reduce their importance and
> > legitimize
> > > a
> > > > > > "take
> > > > > > > it or leave it"  attitude.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I was under the impression, that we put some responsibility on
> the
> > > end
> > > > > > user.
> > > > > > > Turning on the lighting is probably a good minimum
requirement.
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Emmanuelle Gutierrez y Restrepo"
> <emmanuelle@teleline.es>
> > > > > > > To: <cyns@opendesign.com>; <lseeman@globalformats.com>;
> > > > > > <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 6:35 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: an action item :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Maybe be good idea that in the introduction of the
guidelines
> > the
> > > > > > > meticulous
> > > > > > > > explanations are eliminated on the types of deficiencies
that
> > > cover,
> > > > > > > > provided another document that explains clearly what a type
> of
> > > users
> > > > > > exist
> > > > > > > > and in what circumstances they have been kept in mind when
> > > editing
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > rules.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anyway, in the writing proposed by Lisa she lacks to mention
> the
> > > > > > external
> > > > > > > > conditions. I believe that we can classify to all the users
> and
> > > > their
> > > > > > > > personal circumstances in three factors to keep in mind:
> > Personal
> > > > > > factors
> > > > > > > > (that cover the disability, the age and the illiteracy),
> > > > > Technological
> > > > > > > > Factors (that cover the necessity to use assistive
technology
> > and
> > > > all
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > technologies that can be used) and External Factors (that
> cover
> > > the
> > > > > > noisy
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > not well illuminated atmospheres and any other obstacle
> unaware
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > person).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > Emmanuelle
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: <cyns@opendesign.com>
> > > > > > > > To: <lseeman@globalformats.com>; <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 2:18 AM
> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: an action item :)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Short, sweet, and to the point.  I like it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: Lisa Seeman [mailto:lseeman@globalformats.com]
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 7:11 AM
> > > > > > > > > To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
> > > > > > > > > Subject: an action item :)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In the ftf one of my action items was to write a
> replacement
> > > for
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > list
> > > > > > > > > of impairments catered for in the introduction.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The idea is to give people a sense of context about who
and
> > > what
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > guidelines are for, some awareness of what user groups and
> > > devices
> > > > > > > exist,
> > > > > > > > > without opening a Pandora's box of classifying
disabilities
> > > (which
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > personally felt could get offensive)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I felt that it important to get a proposal on the table,
so
> > > that
> > > > we
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > agree if this is the kind of thing we want in principal,
> and
> > > then
> > > > > we
> > > > > > > > > can  get pedantic about semantics and my grammar.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So in your comments, please remember to say if this is
> > > > > > > > >   the kind of thing that you want content wise
> > > > > > > > >   and the kind of style that we want
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It is a bit plagiarized from our home site, but we do not
> > >  mind.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > <this is it>
> > > > > > > > > Understanding the guidelines involves remembering that not
> all
> > > > > devices
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > the same, (e.g. keypads, brail readers )  not all systems
> are
> > > the
> > > > > > same,
> > > > > > > > > (e.g. voice browsers, screen magnifiers)  and not all
>  people
> > > are
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > same.
> > > > > > > > > (From the visually impaired, low motor coordination, to
the
> > > > > learning
> > > > > > > > > disabled, what make you unique?) In implementing the
> > guidelines
> > > > one
> > > > > > must
> > > > > > > > > attempt to cater for the maximum number of people in the
> > > maximum
> > > > > > number
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > scenarios. This can be achieved though a single accessible
> > > > > rendering
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > multiple accessible renderings that are optimized for
> > different
> > > > > > > > situations.
> > > > > > > > > </this is it>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
Received on Monday, 16 July 2001 18:06:44 GMT

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