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Re: an action item :)

From: Emmanuelle Gutiérrez y Restrepo <emmanuelle@teleline.es>
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:15:39 +0200
Message-ID: <005901c10e2b$b3c37bc0$2f0e04d5@teleline.es>
To: <apembert@erols.com>, "Lisa Seeman" <lseeman@globalformats.com>, <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Hi,

In fact, the question that I tried to highlight is that, applying the usual
rules covers the external factors. That which can suppose future uses of
Internet under non usual conditions, at the moment.

Regards,
Emmanuelle

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anne Pemberton" <apembert@erols.com>
To: "'Emmanuelle Gutierrez y Restrepo'" <emmanuelle@teleline.es>; "Lisa
Seeman" <lseeman@globalformats.com>; <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 8:48 PM
Subject: RE: an action item :)


> Emmanuelle,
>
> Handicapping environmental conditions are controllable at the user level
> more efficiently than at the page author level. If a kiosk is located in
an
> noisy location, it should be provided with a personal hearing device
> (movable speaker, earphones, etc.)  There is nothing the page author can
do
> to improve the situation other than comply with the usual guidelines.  If
> the page or kiosk interface is provided in visible print, it should also
> provide it in audio and in graphics. What else would you have a page
author
> do?
>
> As to driving --- if your hands are tied up, your mind should be on what
> you're doing. By the way, there is an inexpensive device advertised on tv,
> to "convert" your cell phone to a hands-free use. Advertises that it works
> as well as more expensive systems, so there must be a variety of products
> available already to compensate for this environmental handicapping
> condition.
>
> But the most effective answer to temporarily disabling environmental
> conditions is either to modify the hardware to accommodate if it is a
> regularly-occuring condition, or wait and use the Internet/affected sites,
> at a more appropriate time and place.
>
> Anne
>
> Anne
>
> Anne Pemberton
> apembert@erols.com
> http://www.erols.com/stevepem
> http://www.geocities.com/apembert45
>
> On Monday, July 16, 2001 12:24 PM, Emmanuelle Gutierrez y Restrepo
> [SMTP:emmanuelle@teleline.es] wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have not surely known how to choose the examples. But I don't
> understand
> > the interest to eliminate the external factors since, if the guidelines
> keep
> > in mind to people with disability, automatically, they cover the
> necessities
> > of people that are in a handicaped situation.
> > I agree with Anne in that it is dangerous to drive and to assist to
> another
> > task at the same time. In Spain it is forbidden to use the mobile
> telephone
> > while he/she is driving. But I have understood that there are some
> countries
> > in those that there are highways in those that it is not necessary that
> the
> > driver maintains all his attention and, also, I know that systems of
> > automatic conduction are designing. Anyway it can be a possible
situation
> in
> > the future, that some will consider important to keep in mind and other
> not.
> > But if all agree on eliminating the external factors, me too.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Emmanuelle
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Anne Pemberton" <apembert@erols.com>
> > To: "'Emmanuelle Gutierrez y Restrepo'" <emmanuelle@teleline.es>; "Lisa
> > Seeman" <lseeman@globalformats.com>; <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 3:53 PM
> > Subject: RE: an action item :)
> >
> >
> > > Emmanuelle,
> > >
> > > The examples you used are unique uses of the Internet and would not
> apply
> > > to all web pages on the Internet - only those to be used in those
> unique
> > > situations. I am strongly opposed to ANY accommodation that encourages
> the
> > > user to be distracted while driving a vehicle on the same road with
me!
> If
> > > you HAVE to consult the Internet while you are driving, at least have
> the
> > > sense to pull off the road and do your thing, then get back on the
> road.
> > >
> > > Anne
> > >
> > > On Monday, July 16, 2001 7:32 AM, Emmanuelle Gutierrez y Restrepo
> > > [SMTP:emmanuelle@teleline.es] wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > The External Factors that I have mentioned, are not limited to a
> noisy
> > or
> > > > not well illuminated atmosphere neither they refer to situations in
> > those
> > > > that the user can make something to change them.
> > > > Let us think of a person that uses a kiosk in an airport or in that
> that
> > > > drives their car and at the same time he/she has to use Internet or
> in
> > > any
> > > > situation in the one that the hands or the user's senses are
> hindered.
> > > >
> > > > If the main objective of the guidelines is people with disability,
> then
> > > they
> > > > should keep in mind the handicap situation in that any person can
be.
> > > Unless
> > > > you want to follow a "disability" definition different from the
> > > conventional
> > > > one internationally for the WHO.
> > > >
> > > > I don't believe that to include external factors reduces the
> importance
> > > of
> > > > the guidelines, on the contrary, I believe that for some managers,
> not
> > > very
> > > > sensitive to the necessities of people with disabilities, this focus
> ago
> > > > more attractive the necessity to implement them.
> > > >
> > > > Of course that it is a work of EO to explain the reasons to apply
the
> > > > guidelines, but I believe that in the introduction it should be
> > > mentioned,
> > > > at least, the factors that the guidelines are kept in mind or that
> they
> > > > cover.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > > Emmanuelle
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Lisa Seeman" <lseeman@globalformats.com>
> > > > To: <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> > > > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 9:57 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: an action item :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I think Emmanuelle has made a point of other advantages of
> following
> > > the
> > > > > guidelines. That in following them the site will be useable and
> > helpful
> > > > for
> > > > > "the noisy or
> > > > > not well illuminated atmospheres".
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This, I think, is just usability and not about making content
> > > > inaccessible.
> > > > > Now our guidelines will help these situations, but they are not
(in
> my
> > > > > opinion) what they were for. Therefore I prefer to not include
> these
> > > > > usability but not accessibility points. I think that is belongs
> with
> > > EO,
> > > > as
> > > > > another good reason for implementing the guidelines.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think making people think that these guideline include things to
> > help
> > > > > people in a noisy room, will reduce their importance and
legitimize
> a
> > > > "take
> > > > > it or leave it"  attitude.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was under the impression, that we put some responsibility on the
> end
> > > > user.
> > > > > Turning on the lighting is probably a good minimum requirement.
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Emmanuelle Gutierrez y Restrepo" <emmanuelle@teleline.es>
> > > > > To: <cyns@opendesign.com>; <lseeman@globalformats.com>;
> > > > <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 6:35 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: an action item :)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe be good idea that in the introduction of the guidelines
the
> > > > > meticulous
> > > > > > explanations are eliminated on the types of deficiencies that
> cover,
> > > > > > provided another document that explains clearly what a type of
> users
> > > > exist
> > > > > > and in what circumstances they have been kept in mind when
> editing
> > > the
> > > > > > rules.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, in the writing proposed by Lisa she lacks to mention the
> > > > external
> > > > > > conditions. I believe that we can classify to all the users and
> > their
> > > > > > personal circumstances in three factors to keep in mind:
Personal
> > > > factors
> > > > > > (that cover the disability, the age and the illiteracy),
> > > Technological
> > > > > > Factors (that cover the necessity to use assistive technology
and
> > all
> > > > the
> > > > > > technologies that can be used) and External Factors (that cover
> the
> > > > noisy
> > > > > or
> > > > > > not well illuminated atmospheres and any other obstacle unaware
> to
> > > the
> > > > > > person).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Emmanuelle
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: <cyns@opendesign.com>
> > > > > > To: <lseeman@globalformats.com>; <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 2:18 AM
> > > > > > Subject: RE: an action item :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Short, sweet, and to the point.  I like it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Lisa Seeman [mailto:lseeman@globalformats.com]
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 7:11 AM
> > > > > > > To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
> > > > > > > Subject: an action item :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In the ftf one of my action items was to write a replacement
> for
> > > the
> > > > > list
> > > > > > > of impairments catered for in the introduction.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The idea is to give people a sense of context about who and
> what
> > > the
> > > > > > > guidelines are for, some awareness of what user groups and
> devices
> > > > > exist,
> > > > > > > without opening a Pandora's box of classifying disabilities
> (which
> > > I
> > > > > > > personally felt could get offensive)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I felt that it important to get a proposal on the table, so
> that
> > we
> > > > can
> > > > > > > agree if this is the kind of thing we want in principal, and
> then
> > > we
> > > > > > > can  get pedantic about semantics and my grammar.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So in your comments, please remember to say if this is
> > > > > > >   the kind of thing that you want content wise
> > > > > > >   and the kind of style that we want
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is a bit plagiarized from our home site, but we do not
>  mind.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > <this is it>
> > > > > > > Understanding the guidelines involves remembering that not all
> > > devices
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > the same, (e.g. keypads, brail readers )  not all systems are
> the
> > > > same,
> > > > > > > (e.g. voice browsers, screen magnifiers)  and not all  people
> are
> > > the
> > > > > > same.
> > > > > > > (From the visually impaired, low motor coordination, to the
> > > learning
> > > > > > > disabled, what make you unique?) In implementing the
guidelines
> > one
> > > > must
> > > > > > > attempt to cater for the maximum number of people in the
> maximum
> > > > number
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > scenarios. This can be achieved though a single accessible
> > > rendering
> > > > or
> > > > > > > multiple accessible renderings that are optimized for
different
> > > > > > situations.
> > > > > > > </this is it>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
>
Received on Monday, 16 July 2001 15:19:53 GMT

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