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Minutes April 11th 2003

From: Jeremy Carroll <jjc@hpl.hp.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:34:06 +0300
To: w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org
Message-Id: <200304111934.06725.jjc@hpl.hp.com>


MINUTES RDFCore WG Telecon 2003-04-11

SUMMARY:

* DECISIONS:

RESOLVED: gk to send msg 0206 for timbl-02 as amended
ABSTENTION: jos

RESOLVED:
WG not accept horrocks-01 for reasons stated in 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0110.html
UNANIMOUS

RESOLVED:
   not to change the URI REFS for the RDF and RDFS namespaces
Graham abstaining

RESOLVED:
pfps22 and pfps23 with the text outlined in message 0201 
with the note for reviewrs and the last paragraph removed
UNANIMOUS

RESOLVED:
 pfps-16 is addressed by deleting the one sentence "The expressive power ..."
UNANIMOUS

RESOLVED:
 williams-01 is rejected, but the text is made more consistent as in msg 0199
UNANIMOUS


* NEW ACTIONS:

ACTION: gk send response to timbl-02
ACTION jeremy identify which four concepts issues will be progressed next
ACTION jeremy propose closures on four concepts issues for next telecon
ACTION dave make proposals on remaining syntax issues by next telecon
ACTION bwm talk to danbri about schema issues
ACTION jos check impact of closure rule changes on implementation
ACTION danbri To propose eight resolutions for the next telecon
ACTION: jjc editorial changes reflecting not changing namespace URI
ACTION: daveb editorial changes reflecting not changing namespace URI
ACTION jjc update CONCEPTS in light of decision pfps 22 pfps 23
ACTION gk respond wrt pfps 22 pfps 23 when the text is ready
ACTION jjc update CONCEPTS in light of decision pfps 16
ACTION gk respond wrt pfps 16 when the text is ready
ACTION jjc update CONCEPTS in light of decision williams 01
ACTION gk respond wrt williams 01
ACTION em Request that the documents at the end of the rdf and rdfs ns uris 
be updated
ACTION daveb reply to pfps "we have considered yr e-mail and decided to ask 
for the document at the namespace to be updated"


* SELECTED CONTINUED ACTIONS:

2003-03-28#9  
jjc  update Concepts in light of XML Schema LC review editorial comments
2003-03-28#11
danbri  check for editorial actions on Schema from XML Schema LC review
2003-03-21#9  
jjc  Check the details of the denotation of
         XMLLiterals in section 3.1 of Semantics WD draft
2003-04-04#11 
jjc Produce a test case for tex-01 (as outlined in message
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0077.html
  with RDF/XML premise and conclusion inputs) and reply to issue raiser.

Agenda 
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0187.html


IRC Transcript:
    http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/rdfcore/2003-04-11.html
or  http://www.w3.org/2003/04/11-rdfcore-irc#T15-56-13

1: Jeremy volunteered to scribe


2: Roll Call
PatH, EMiller, GrahamKlyne, Jeremy
 Brian, Daveb, jang, DanBri later.

Regrets danbri (partial), miked,frank,patrick

3: Review Agenda
  Added AOBs:  section 3.3 of concepts
               OWL Test Cases

4: Next telecon 25 Apr 2003 1000 Boston Time
Omitting next week as it is a public holiday in some countries.

Volunteer Scribe: JanG



5: Minutes of 28 Mar 2003 telecon with corrections
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0097.html

APPROVED


6: Minutes of 04 Apr 2003 telecon
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0128.html
APPROVED

7: Confirm Status of Completed Actions

ACTION: 2002-02-26#1 bwm
Add to postponed issues list, URI

see:
  http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfs-lang-vocab

ACTION: 2003-03-14#1 jang
take a final pass of the -comments list to identify remaining items 
that have not been dealt with or been assigned process numbers 

see:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0099.html

ACTION: 2003-04-04#1 bwm
To send review comments (with addition of suggestion of adoption of 
DTed literals) to CC/PP

see:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0129.html

ACTION: 2003-04-04#10 daveb
Let RolandS know that bagId has been removed



8: reminder: reviewing Owl docs:
2003-03-28#1  danbri  review OWL Reference when published as Last Call
2003-03-28#2  janG  review OWL Reference when published as Last Call      
2003-03-28#3  bwm  review OWL Reference when published as Last Call      
2003-03-28#4  JanG  review OWL Semantics when published as Last Call




9: Status on Incoming Last Call Comments

Please can editors follow up on these as given.

Jan's list of messages without followup

  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0099.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0208.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0206.html
[all editorial, no ack]

Pat??

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0211.html
[IIRC this has been responded to but I can't find the thread that deals
        with it]

Pat??

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0228.html
[language tags and datatyped literal design, by Pat Hayes himself. This
is currently being debated on rdfcore]

Pat??

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0265.html
[aaron's comment on 404s attached to pfps-14. No ack from Aaron]

Graham - in progress

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0295.html
[EricP's comment about examples in Primer. Frank's prompted him for
reasons why; this is to do with nonopaqueness issue of URLs. No response
from EricP but I think this is captured in other discussion]

Frank??

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0328.html
[question about illformed collections. related to pfps-12 by Brian]

Pat, please can you take this one.

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0348.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0494.html
[ter Horst's editorial suggestions, last not ack'ed]

Pat??

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0355.html
[DanC on member and collection; recall this being discussed, can't find
a closing message]

Danbri??

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0384.html
[late, another question about creating a class for rdfs:Schema. No ack]

Danbri??

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0416.html
[late, typo, no ack]

Danbri??

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0440.html
[late, JJC asking about appropriate behaviour for rdfs:foobar]

DaveB??

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0362.html
[Massimo: semantic support for Bag/Alt. This was discussed IIRC but I
can't find the thread]

Pat??

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0598.html
[this is OK, but the response is in the Apr - Jun section, the question
is in Jan-Mar, just if you're looking for it]

2003-03-28#8  daveB  editorial comments for Syntax from XML 
       Schema review      
Completed

2003-03-28#9  jjc  update Concepts in light of XML Schema LC
        review editorial comments
Continued
2003-03-28#11  danbri  check for editorial actions on Schema from 
        XML Schema LC review
Continued




10: Status on responses to  Last Call Comments
Awaiting responses to:
  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#qu-01
  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#qu-02
  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#williams-01
  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#timbl-02


Discussion of #timbl-02

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0206.html

Agreement that msg should be amended with Roland Schwaenzl full name, and URI
http://www.mathematik.uni-osnabrueck.de/staff/phpages/schwaenzlr.html

RESOLVED: gk to send msg 0206 for timbl-02 as amended
ABSTENTION: jos
ACTION: gk send response to timbl-02




11: Schedule


ACTION jeremy identify which four concepts issues will be progressed next
ACTION jeremy propose closures on four concepts issues for next telecon
ACTION dave make proposals on remaining syntax issues by next telecon
ACTION bwm talk to danbri about schema issues
ACTION danbri To propose eight resolutions for the next telecon


Side discussion on impact of Herman's comments on closure rules:
ACTION jos check impact of closure rule changes on implementation

13: Issue horrocks-01
(taken out of order)

  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#horrocks-01

Jos has done some tests that showed problems with Ian's proposed
treatment of rdf comments.

RESOLVED:

WG not accept horrocks-01 for reasons stated in 

  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0110.html

12: Issue pfps-04,pfps-05,pfps-06,pfps-07,pfps-10

Pat needs to move this forward.

  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#pfps-04
  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#pfps-05
  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#pfps-06
  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#pfps-07
  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#pfps-10

Pat's message:

  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Mar/0069.html

ACTION 2003-03-14#6 (gk) review semantics editor's draft wrt
        changed arising out of pfps-04 -05 -06 -07 -08 -10
ACTION 2003-03-14#7 (jang) review semantics editor's draft wrt
        changed arising out of pfps-04 -05 -06 -07 -08 -10
Both Done, awaiting Pat to respond.

ACTION: 2003-03-21#9  jjc  Check the details of the denotation of
         XMLLiterals in section 3.1 of Semantics WD draft
CONTINUED




14: Issue tex-01

  ACTION 2003-04-04#11 (jjc) Produce a test case for tex-01 (as outlined
        in message
        http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0077.html
        with RDF/XML premise and conclusion inputs) and reply to
        issue raiser.

Test cases still to do.
Continued.


15: Namespace change

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#efth-01

RESOLVED:
[[
   not to change the URI REFS for the RDF and RDFS namespaces

]]
Graham abstaining

See:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0153.html
for rationale

ACTION jjc editorial changes reflecting not changing namespace URI
ACTION daveb editorial changes reflecting not changing namespace URI



16: Concepts Issues

pfps-22, pfps-23:
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0201.html

Discussion about predicting changes to the namespace, Grahams last paragraph.

RESOLVED:
pfps22 and pfps23 with the text outlined in message 0201 
with the note for reviewrs and the last paragraph removed
UNANIMOUS


ACTION jjc update CONCEPTS in light of decision pfps 22 pfps 23
ACTION gk respond wrt pfps 22 pfps 23 when the text is ready


pfps-16 (revised proposal):
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0200.html

extended discussion concerning section 3.5
Both in LC document and in the new proposed text.
This sentence "The expressive power of RDF corresponds to the 
existential-conjunctive (EC) subset of first order logic [Sowa]."
was highlighted as problematic.


RESOLVED:
 pfps-16 is addressed by deleting the one sentence "The expressive power ..."
UNANIMOUS
ACTION jjc update CONCEPTS in light of decision pfps 16
ACTION gk respond wrt pfps 16 when the text is ready


jjc & gk agreed to make the changes to 2.2.6 and 2.2.7 as in msg 0200
as editorial changes.

williams-01 (revised proposal):
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0199.html
latest amendment reflect comment from Patrick
   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0192.html

RESOLVED:
 williams-01 is rejected, but the text is made more consistent as in msg 0199
UNANIMOUS
ACTION jjc update CONCEPTS in light of decision williams 01
ACTION gk respond wrt williams 01


Fragments
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0203.html

These are editorial changes made in light of last call comments.
There are no substantive last call issues.

Little discussion.
Patrick's unhappiness was noted.
E-mail discussion to continue.


17: documents at end of RDF(S) namespace URI's

  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2003Apr/0012.html

Extended discussion (see IRC)

ACTION em Request that the documents at the end of the rdf and rdfs ns uris 
be updated
ACTION daveb reply to pfps "we have considered yr e-mail and decided to ask 
for the document at the namespace to be updated"


AOB 1: Section 3.3 in Concepts
http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-concepts/#section-Datatypes
which bits are normative?
Editorial agreement (jjc+gk) to move normative sections
from here to Abstract Syntax part. Jeremy to circulate
draft since it will technically be substantive.

AOB 2: OWL Test Cases
Jeremy indicates that the plan is to move this to LC fairly
soon, so a review now would be premature.
Received on Friday, 11 April 2003 13:33:43 EDT

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