W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org > May 2001

Minutes 25 May for review (and: fun with RDF for meeting records)

From: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:21:52 -0500
Message-ID: <3B0EA2C0.238A48D4@w3.org>
To: w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org
Attached find records of our teleconference this morning
in the following forms
  -- XHTML generated via XSLT from HTML
  -- RDF/n3 written by hand using notes from the IRC log
  -- RDF/XML produced by some pythong code from RDF/n3
  -- raw IRC log

These have note been reviewed by the participants except
in the case of folks that were paying attention to the IRC
channel while the log was being produced.

[technical details to follow...]

-- 
Dan Connolly, W3C http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
@prefix u: <http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#>.
@prefix w: <http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#>.
@prefix n: <http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#>.
@prefix mr: <http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#>.
@prefix pd: <http://www.w3.org/2000/08/palm56/datebook#>.
@prefix pa: <http://www.w3.org/2000/08/palm56/addr#>.

@prefix who: <http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#>. # @@needs anchors

@prefix : <#>.

<>
  mr:date "2001-05-25";
  mr:roll
    [ n:_1  [ mr:from who:brian_mcbride; a mr:ChairAck ];
      n:_2  [ mr:from who:danbri; mr:presentOnlyFor :itemDANBRI; ];
      n:_3  [ mr:from who:barstow; a mr:Present ];
      n:_4  [ mr:from who:beckett; a mr:Present ];
      n:_5  [ mr:from who:frank; a mr:Absent ]; #@@ absent
      n:_6  [ mr:from who:connolly; a mr:ScribeAck ];
      n:_7  [ mr:from who:rdaniel; a mr:Absent ];
      n:_8  [ mr:from who:bdehora; a mr:Present ];
      n:_9  [ mr:from who:deroo; a mr:Regrets ];
      n:_10 [ mr:from who:rael; a mr:Absent ];
      n:_11 [ mr:from who:grant; a mr:Present ];
      n:_12 [ mr:from who:horner; a mr:Absent ];
      n:_13 [ mr:from who:renato; a mr:Absent ];
      n:_14 [ mr:from who:ykitahara; a mr:Absent ];
      n:_15 [ mr:from who:Klyne; a mr:Regrets ];
      n:_16 [ mr:from who:mkopchenov; a mr:Absent ];
      n:_17 [ mr:from who:lassila; a mr:Absent ];
      n:_18 [ mr:from who:fmanola; a mr:Present ];
      n:_19 [ mr:from who:snakamura; a mr:Absent ];
      n:_20 [ mr:from who:spetschu; a mr:Present ];
      n:_21 [ mr:from who:pgr; a mr:Absent ];
      n:_22 [ mr:from who:aswartz; a mr:Present ];
      n:_23 [ mr:from who:mdean; a mr:Absent ]; # didn't actually call his name, did we?
      n:_23 [ mr:from who:guha; a mr:Absent ]; # didn't actually call his name, did we?
      n:_24 [ mr:from who:em; a mr:Present ]
    ];

  mr:agenda [
    n:_1 [
      u:label """00  Welcome, Roll Call, volunteer scribe, Agenda
                 Review Minutes of previous meeting""";
      mr:summary """minutes recorded by EricM approved as corrected in 0124, 0125 @@links.
DanBri: intends to meet with Guha next week in IRC and to get a brain dump from him.
McBride solicits folks with test cases to send them to him.

McBride reminds all that ftf is scheduled for 1,2 Aug.
@@WG home page: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/
agenda request: discussion of communicating resolutions to developer community.
""";
      mr:result [
        a mr:ActionAck; mr:index n:_1; mr:from who:guha;
	u:label "Solicit RDF feature usage info and report back to the group" ];
      mr:result [
        a mr:ActionDone; #@@
	mr:index n:_2; mr:from who:beckett;
	u:label "Update the proposed changes for this issue[@@which?] and add test cases to demonstrate how they worked.";
      ];

      mr:result [
        mr:index n:_3; mr:from who:lassilla, who:danbri;
        u:label """send analysis (#rdf-container-syntax-ambiguity and
    #rdf-containers-syntax-vs-schema)to rdfcore-wg list""";
        a mr:ActionAck; #@@ link to progress in email
      ];

      mr:result [
        mr:index n:_4; mr:from who:beckett;
        u:label "re #rdfms-not-id-and-resource-attr: Revise analysis and post to list";
	a mr:ActionDone
      ];

      mr:result [
        mr:index n:_4; mr:from who:guha;
        u:label "re #rdfms-reification-required: Present analaysis to list for discussion.";
        a mr:ActionAck; #@@distinguish accepting an item from continuing one.
      ];

      mr:result [
        mr:index n:_6; mr:from who:brian_mcbride;
	u:label "Link test cases, results etc. from issues list";
        a mr:ActionAck;
      ];

      mr:result [
        mr:index n:_7; mr:from who:grant;
	u:label "Do an analysis of the impact of XML Base and summarise to list.";
	a mr:ActionAck;
      ];

      mr:result [
        mr:index n:_8; mr:from who:brian_mcbride;
        u:label "Contact Rael about hosting face to face at O'Reilly.";
	a mr:ActionAck;
      ];

      mr:result [
        mr:index n:_9; mr:from who:Klyne, who:fmanola;
        u:label """to summarize www-rdf-logic perspective of reification as 
 it applies to both logic and rdf andreport back to rdfcore wg""";
        a mr:ActionAck;
      ];

      mr:result [
        mr:index n:_10; a mr:Withdrawn; u:label "dup of A9";
      ];

      mr:result [
        mr:index n:_11; mr:from who:em;
	u:label "to provide a solution enabling write access to RDF M&S and Schema errata documents.";
	a mr:ActionDone
	];

      mr:result [
        mr:deliverable <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001May/0178.html>; #@@deliverable is new
        mr:index n:_12; mr:from who:barstow;
        u:label """to formalize his suggestion RDFCore changes be reflected in
                    a separate page so developers can easily find these
                    issues/resolutions.""";
	a mr:ActionDone;
      ];

   ];


   n:_2 [
     u:label "15  re issues: #rdf-containers-syntax-ambiguity #rdf-containers-syntax-vs-schema";
     mr:summary "postponed. @@make this a class.";
   ];

   n:_3 [
     u:label "30 re issue: #rdf-ns-prefix-confusion";
     mr:summary """
Connolly: so the language doesn't contain these documents. Good. that's clear.
Connolly: licensing processors to accept documents that aren't in the language is risky... the user community learns what the language is by what the tools do.
[... scribe is discussing too much to do a good job recording; help? ]
EricM: there's a requirement for syntactic inclusion in HTML.
BillD: I think we need to fix productions 4, 5, and 9
DaveB: I listed a bunch of productions in item2 of the proposal...
BillD: let's make it clear that folks MUST NOT use unprefixed resource/about/.. attrs.
em  notes that he may have overstated earlier requirements as there is no specified requirement of syntactic inclusion in M&S Specification.
item 7 is withdrawn; change is incorporated into item 2.
ArtB: so you're changing production 6.19 so that the prefix is not optional?
DaveB: yes.
ArtB: do folks realize there might be a lot of RDF out there in this form?
several: yes.
BillD: this looks like an erratum then; the grammar had a typo.
EricM: let's note this in both places: the errata and the developers page.
BrianM: "namespace prefixed" should become "namespace qualified" several times in the spec.
scribe checks, finds that "prefixed" doesn't occur in the spec.
DaveB: I have 7 tests.
""";

     mr:result [
       a mr:Decision;
       u:label """
The current RDF/XML syntax uses the following attributes in the syntax:

     about aboutEach aboutEachPrefix
     ID bagID
     resource
     parseType
     -- List of RDF attributes (henceforth The List)

     The remaining concepts are not in the list because:
       a. Seq Bag Alt Property Statement
         These are rdfs:Class-es and can never be used as attributes
       b. RDF Description   
         Syntax only things that have no current use as attributes
       c. li _<n> subject predicate object type value
         Not allowed to be used unprefixed according to the grammar

     Note Re: aboutEach aboutEachPrefix
       At present it is expected these will be removed from the
       specification although the WG has not addressed this yet.
       See thread at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001May/0123.html
[@@@hmm... formatting/structure of decisions]
""";
    ];

    mr:result [
      a mr:Decision;
      u:label """
2.  The grammar will be corrected to require namespace-qualification
    for all attributes for The List.  A namespace prefix MUST be used
    for these attributes, where the namespace prefix points to the
    RDF URI http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#

    The meaning of the attributes is defined by the appropriate RDF
    M&S sections and is not modified here.

    The changes to the grammar at
      http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-rdf-syntax/#grammar
    include modifying productions 6.6, 6.7, 6.8, 6.9, 6.11, 6.18,
    6.32, 6.33 to have rdf: added before all the attributes.  There
    are almost certainly other changes to the grammar, as well as
    changes throughout the rest of the document such as examples and
    in-text mentions.
""";
    ];

    mr:result [
      a mr:Decision;
      u:label "to remove 3, 4, 5 from the proposal of Thu, 24 May 2001 14:47:07 +0100; i.e. not to license RDF processors to accept documents that contain unprefixed attributes";
    ];

    mr:result [
      a mr:Decision;
      u:label """6.  The grammar will be corrected to allow non-prefixed [correction: _not_ non-qualified] RDF elements (NOT attributes) when a default XML
    namespace is defined with an xmlns="..." attribute.

    Discussion: For example
      <Description xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">
         ...
      </Description>
    is currently forbidden by production 6.3; it requires rdf:Description
""";
    ];

    mr:result [
      a mr:ActionAck; mr:from who:brian_mcbride;
      u:label "edit the errata per the resolutions above; i.e. those regarding #rdf-ns-prefix-confusion";
    ];

    mr:result [
      a mr:ActionAck; mr:from who:beckett;
      u:label "assemble test cases re #rdf-ns-prefix-confusion and suggest details of how the grammar in the spec should be updated.";
    ];

  ];


  n:_4 [ u:label "Format for expected results of test cases";
    mr:summary """jang: we have an evolving convention for test case input; I have a suggestion for "expected results" format. that I intend to send.""";
    mr:result [
      a mr:ActionAck; mr:from who:grant;
      u:label "propose expected results format.";
    ];
  ];


  n:_5 [ u:label "Adjournment";
    mr:result [
      a mr:Decision;
      u:label "to meet again one week hence";
    ]
  ];

 ];


 mr:previous <mid:5.1.0.14.2.20010518145947.080e8268@localhost>;

 mr:meetingCall <mid:3B0D19C7.7EA85FDF@hplb.hpl.hp.com>.

<mid:3B0D19C7.7EA85FDF@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
	mr:archivedIn
	<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001May/0168.html>;
	<#email_subject> "RDFCore WG 2001-05-25 Teleconference Agenda".

<mid:5.1.0.14.2.20010518145947.080e8268@localhost>
    mr:archivedIn
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001May/0122.html>;
    is mr:record of [ mr:date "2001-05-18" ].




<!-- Processed by Id: cwm.py,v 1.47 2001/05/23 01:39:39 timbl Exp -->
<!--     using base file:/home/connolly/w3ccvs/WWW/2000/11/mr76/-->


<w:RDF xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#"
    xmlns:w="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"
    xmlns:pa="http://www.w3.org/2000/08/palm56/addr#"
    xmlns:who="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#"
    xmlns:u="http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#"
    xmlns:log="http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/log#"
    xmlns:pd="http://www.w3.org/2000/08/palm56/datebook#">

    <w:Description>
        <date>2001-05-18</date>
        <record w:resource="mid:5.1.0.14.2.20010518145947.080e8268@localhost"/>
    </w:Description>

    <w:Description w:about="rdfc25May.n3">
        <agenda w:parseType="Resource">
            <w:_1 w:parseType="Resource">
                <u:label>00  Welcome, Roll Call, volunteer scribe, Agenda
                 Review Minutes of previous meeting</u:label>
                <summary>minutes recorded by EricM approved as corrected in 0124, 0125 @@links.
DanBri: intends to meet with Guha next week in IRC and to get a brain dump from him.
McBride solicits folks with test cases to send them to him.

McBride reminds all that ftf is scheduled for 1,2 Aug.
@@WG home page: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/
agenda request: discussion of communicating resolutions to developer community.
</summary>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#ActionAck"/>
                    <index w:resource="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#_1"/>
                    <from w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#guha"/>
                    <u:label>Solicit RDF feature usage info and report back to the group</u:label>
                </result>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#ActionDone"/>
                    <index w:resource="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#_2"/>
                    <from w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#beckett"/>
                    <u:label>Update the proposed changes for this issue[@@which?] and add test cases to demonstrate how they worked.</u:label>
                </result>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <index w:resource="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#_3"/>
                    <from w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#lassilla"/>
                    <from w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#danbri"/>
                    <u:label>send analysis (#rdf-container-syntax-ambiguity and
    #rdf-containers-syntax-vs-schema)to rdfcore-wg list</u:label>
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#ActionAck"/>
                </result>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <index w:resource="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#_4"/>
                    <from w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#beckett"/>
                    <u:label>re #rdfms-not-id-and-resource-attr: Revise analysis and post to list</u:label>
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#ActionDone"/>
                </result>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <index w:resource="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#_4"/>
                    <from w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#guha"/>
                    <u:label>re #rdfms-reification-required: Present analaysis to list for discussion.</u:label>
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#ActionAck"/>
                </result>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <index w:resource="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#_6"/>
                    <from w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#brian_mcbride"/>
                    <u:label>Link test cases, results etc. from issues list</u:label>
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#ActionAck"/>
                </result>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <index w:resource="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#_7"/>
                    <from w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#grant"/>
                    <u:label>Do an analysis of the impact of XML Base and summarise to list.</u:label>
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#ActionAck"/>
                </result>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <index w:resource="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#_8"/>
                    <from w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#brian_mcbride"/>
                    <u:label>Contact Rael about hosting face to face at O'Reilly.</u:label>
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#ActionAck"/>
                </result>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <index w:resource="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#_9"/>
                    <from w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#Klyne"/>
                    <from w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#fmanola"/>
                    <u:label>to summarize www-rdf-logic perspective of reification as 
 it applies to both logic and rdf andreport back to rdfcore wg</u:label>
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#ActionAck"/>
                </result>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <index w:resource="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#_10"/>
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#Withdrawn"/>
                    <u:label>dup of A9</u:label>
                </result>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <index w:resource="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#_11"/>
                    <from w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#em"/>
                    <u:label>to provide a solution enabling write access to RDF M&#38;S and Schema errata documents.</u:label>
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#ActionDone"/>
                </result>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <deliverable w:resource="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001May/0178.html"/>
                    <index w:resource="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#_12"/>
                    <from w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#barstow"/>
                    <u:label>to formalize his suggestion RDFCore changes be reflected in
                    a separate page so developers can easily find these
                    issues/resolutions.</u:label>
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#ActionDone"/>
                </result>
            </w:_1>
            <w:_2 w:parseType="Resource">
                <u:label>15  re issues: #rdf-containers-syntax-ambiguity #rdf-containers-syntax-vs-schema</u:label>
                <summary>postponed. @@make this a class.</summary>
            </w:_2>
            <w:_3 w:parseType="Resource">
                <u:label>30 re issue: #rdf-ns-prefix-confusion</u:label>
                <summary>
Connolly: so the language doesn't contain these documents. Good. that's clear.
Connolly: licensing processors to accept documents that aren't in the language is risky... the user community learns what the language is by what the tools do.
[... scribe is discussing too much to do a good job recording; help? ]
EricM: there's a requirement for syntactic inclusion in HTML.
BillD: I think we need to fix productions 4, 5, and 9
DaveB: I listed a bunch of productions in item2 of the proposal...
BillD: let's make it clear that folks MUST NOT use unprefixed resource/about/.. attrs.
em  notes that he may have overstated earlier requirements as there is no specified requirement of syntactic inclusion in M&#38;S Specification.
item 7 is withdrawn; change is incorporated into item 2.
ArtB: so you're changing production 6.19 so that the prefix is not optional?
DaveB: yes.
ArtB: do folks realize there might be a lot of RDF out there in this form?
several: yes.
BillD: this looks like an erratum then; the grammar had a typo.
EricM: let's note this in both places: the errata and the developers page.
BrianM: "namespace prefixed" should become "namespace qualified" several times in the spec.
scribe checks, finds that "prefixed" doesn't occur in the spec.
DaveB: I have 7 tests.
</summary>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#Decision"/>
                    <u:label>
The current RDF/XML syntax uses the following attributes in the syntax:

     about aboutEach aboutEachPrefix
     ID bagID
     resource
     parseType
     -- List of RDF attributes (henceforth The List)

     The remaining concepts are not in the list because:
       a. Seq Bag Alt Property Statement
         These are rdfs:Class-es and can never be used as attributes
       b. RDF Description   
         Syntax only things that have no current use as attributes
       c. li _&#60;n&#62; subject predicate object type value
         Not allowed to be used unprefixed according to the grammar

     Note Re: aboutEach aboutEachPrefix
       At present it is expected these will be removed from the
       specification although the WG has not addressed this yet.
       See thread at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001May/0123.html
[@@@hmm... formatting/structure of decisions]
</u:label>
                </result>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#Decision"/>
                    <u:label>
2.  The grammar will be corrected to require namespace-qualification
    for all attributes for The List.  A namespace prefix MUST be used
    for these attributes, where the namespace prefix points to the
    RDF URI http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#

    The meaning of the attributes is defined by the appropriate RDF
    M&#38;S sections and is not modified here.

    The changes to the grammar at
      http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-rdf-syntax/#grammar
    include modifying productions 6.6, 6.7, 6.8, 6.9, 6.11, 6.18,
    6.32, 6.33 to have rdf: added before all the attributes.  There
    are almost certainly other changes to the grammar, as well as
    changes throughout the rest of the document such as examples and
    in-text mentions.
</u:label>
                </result>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#Decision"/>
                    <u:label>to remove 3, 4, 5 from the proposal of Thu, 24 May 2001 14:47:07 +0100; i.e. not to license RDF processors to accept documents that contain unprefixed attributes</u:label>
                </result>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#Decision"/>
                    <u:label>6.  The grammar will be corrected to allow non-prefixed [correction: _not_ non-qualified] RDF elements (NOT attributes) when a default XML
    namespace is defined with an xmlns="..." attribute.

    Discussion: For example
      &#60;Description xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"&#62;
         ...
      &#60;/Description&#62;
    is currently forbidden by production 6.3; it requires rdf:Description
</u:label>
                </result>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#ActionAck"/>
                    <from w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#brian_mcbride"/>
                    <u:label>edit the errata per the resolutions above; i.e. those regarding #rdf-ns-prefix-confusion</u:label>
                </result>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#ActionAck"/>
                    <from w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#beckett"/>
                    <u:label>assemble test cases re #rdf-ns-prefix-confusion and suggest details of how the grammar in the spec should be updated.</u:label>
                </result>
            </w:_3>
            <w:_4 w:parseType="Resource">
                <u:label>Format for expected results of test cases</u:label>
                <summary>jang: we have an evolving convention for test case input; I have a suggestion for "expected results" format. that I intend to send.</summary>
                <result w:parseType="Resource">
                    <w:type w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2000/11/mr76/minutes#ActionAck"/>
                    <from w:resource="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members#grant"/>
                    <u:label>propose expected results format.</u:label>
                </result>
            </w:_4>
            <w:_5 w:parseType="Resource">
                <u:label>Adjournment</u:label>
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        <u:label>Stephen Petschulat</u:label>
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        <u:label>Yoshiyuki Kitahara</u:label>
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 25 08:48:05 2001
[...]
09:03:22 <DanC>	Connolly accepts scribe duties
09:03:30 <spetschu>	Stephen Petschulat
09:03:36 <DanC>	http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/members.html
09:03:51 <DanC>	-rank Boumphrey
09:04:01 <ArtB>	+DanBri ?
09:04:02 <DanC>	-Daniel
09:04:16 <DanC>	regrest from De Roo
09:04:22 <jang>	Brian: http://ioctl.org/rdf/ms/rdfms
09:04:23 <DanC>	-Dornfest
09:04:26 <jang>	paragraph numbers
09:04:32 <DanC>	-Horner
09:04:38 <jang>	maybe stick on w3 somewhere?
09:04:40 <DanC>	-Iannella
09:05:09 <DanC>	-Kitahara
09:05:17 <DanC>	regrets Klyne
09:05:33 <DanC>	-Kopchenov
09:05:37 <DanC>	-Lassila
09:05:49 <DanC>	-Nakamura
09:05:59 <DanC>	-Petschulat
09:06:04 <DanC>	-Richard
09:06:09 <DanC>	-Swartz
09:06:15 <ArtB>	No, that's +Petschulat
09:06:19 <jang>	dacc: correction: petschulat here
09:06:20 <spetschu>	+me
09:06:28 <DanC>	Petschulat here.
09:06:39 <ArtB>	+Aaron
09:06:40 -->	mdean (mdean@hh1114013.direcpc.com) has joined #rdfcore
09:06:42 <DanC>	+Swartz
09:06:47 <mdean>	nick _mdean
09:06:59 ---	mdean is now known as _mdean
09:07:16 <DanC>	---- Agenda review
09:07:24 <_mdean>	Mike Dean is here -- wasn't called during roll call
09:07:29 <DanC>	jang: formatted test cases. I'd like to discuss pls.
09:07:46 <DanC>	======= record of preview meeting (@@date)
09:07:50 <DanC>	RESOLVED to approve
09:07:52 <DanC>	http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001May/0122.html
09:07:52 <DanC>	  with corrections:
09:07:52 <DanC>	      http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001May/0124.html
09:07:52 <DanC>	      http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001May/0125.html
09:07:55 <DanC>	as a true record.
09:08:23 <DanC>	ACTION Guah          Solicit RDF feature usage info and report back to the group. CONTINUEs.
09:08:41 <DanC>	A2: Dave Beckett  Update the proposed changes for this issue and add test
09:08:41 <DanC>	                  cases to demonstrate how they worked.
09:08:54 <ArtB>	DanBri: I intend to meet with Guha next week in IRC and to get a brain dump from him
09:09:00 <DanC>	DONE.
09:09:07 <DanC>	A3: Ora Lassilla/ send analysis (#rdf-container-syntax-ambiguity and
09:09:07 <DanC>	    Dan Brickley  #rdf-containers-syntax-vs-schema)to rdfcore-wg list
09:09:19 <DanC>	CONTINUES (cf email update).
09:09:26 <DanC>	A4: Dave Beckett  re #rdfms-not-id-and-resource-attr: Revise analysis and
09:09:26 <DanC>	                  post to list
09:09:37 <DanC>	DONE. (pointer if you got it?)
09:09:43 <DanC>	A5: Guha:         re #rdfms-reification-required: Present analaysis to list
09:09:43 <DanC>	                  for discussion.
09:09:45 <DanC>	CONTINUES.
09:10:00 <DanC>	A6: Brian McBride Link test cases, results etc. from issues list
09:11:08 <DanC>	McBride solicits folks with test cases to send them to him,
09:11:47 <DanC>	A7: Jan Grant     Do an analysis of the impact of XML Base and summarise to
09:11:48 <DanC>	                  list.
09:12:00 <DanC>	CONTINUES.
09:12:09 <DanC>	A8: Brian McBride Contact Rael about hosting face to face at O'Reilly.
09:12:15 <DanC>	McBride reports some progress...
09:12:28 <DanC>	CONTINUES.
09:13:00 <DanC>	McBride: dates are 1,2 Aug.
09:13:35 <ArtB>	WG home page: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/
09:13:44 <DanC>	A9: Graham Klyne/ to summarize www-rdf-logic perspective of reification as 
09:13:44 <DanC>	    Frank Manola  it applies to both logic and rdf andreport back to rdfcore wg
09:13:52 <DanC>	DONE.
09:16:01 <DanC>	rather... CONTINUES, ammended per email discussion.
09:17:03 <DanC>	A10: WITHDRAWN; dup of A9
09:17:10 <DanC>	A11: Eric Miller   to provide a solution enabling write access to RDF M&S and
09:17:10 <DanC>	                   Schema errata documents.
09:17:20 <ArtB>	A12: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001May/0178.html
09:17:24 <DanC>	DONE. EricM can provide details to the chairs offline.
09:17:43 <DanC>	A12: DONE; cf 0178
09:18:10 <DanC>	agenda request: discussion of communicating resolutions to developer community.
09:18:27 <DanC>	==== Containers. POSTPONED.
09:18:44 <dajobe-bwm>	http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001May/0166.html
09:20:42 <ArtB>	DaveB's follow-up wrt ns-prefix-confusion: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001May/0184.html
09:22:03 <DanC>	Connolly: re 1. The current RDF/XML syntax ..., I don't see how it fixes the spec, and it doesn't contain test cases.
09:22:56 <DanC>	RESOLVED: 1. The current RDF/XML syntax uses ...
09:23:17 <DanC>	RESOLVED: 2. 2.  The grammar will be corrected to require namespace-qualification ...
09:23:59 <dajobe-bwm>	Backward Compatibility:  Whilst non-prefixed attribues are no longer part of the RDF language, there may be legacy RDF which contains non prefixed attributes.  An RDF processor MAY continue to accept these.  One way to accomplish this is to use XSLT, as in for example ..., to transform the legacy RDF into correct RDF.  Alternatively, a processor MAY accept non-prefixed attributes from the list directly.
09:24:41 *	em  notes someone needs to mute... difficult to hear
09:24:47 *	ArtB  is heaing *tons of static*
09:24:55 *	em  someone on cell phone?
09:28:59 <DanC>	Connolly: so the language doesn't contain these documents. Good. that's clear.
09:29:26 <DanC>	Connolly: licensing processors to accept documents that aren't in the language is risky... the user community learns what the language is by what the tools do.
09:32:15 <DanC>	[... scribe is discussing too much to do a good job recording; help? ]
09:33:47 <DanC>	EricM: there's a requirement for syntactic inclusion in HTML.
09:34:15 <DanC>	BillD: I think we need to fix productions 4, 5, and 9
09:34:41 <DanC>	DaveB: I listed a bunch of productions in item2 of the proposal...
09:36:22 <DanC>	BillD: let's make it clear that folks MUST NOT use unprefixed resource/about/.. attrs.
09:38:13 *	em  notes that he may have overstated earlier requirements as there is no specified requirement of syntactic inclusion in M&S Specification.
09:38:14 <DanC>	let's remove 3, 4, 5 [several]
09:38:41 <DanC>	RESOLVED: to remove 3, 4, 5
09:38:52 *	em  checking rdf m&s working group page in an attempt to remind himself of this requirement request
09:40:01 <DanC>	RESOLVED: 6.  The grammar will be corrected to allow non-prefixed [corrected] ...
09:42:04 <DanC>	item 7 is withdrawn; change is incorporated into item 2.
09:42:39 <DanC>	ArtB: so you're changing production 6.19 so that the prefix is not optional?
09:42:45 <DanC>	yes.
09:43:07 <DanC>	i.e. DaveB: yes.
09:44:10 <DanC>	ArtB: do folks realize there might be a lot of RDF out there in this form?
09:44:14 <DanC>	several: yes.
09:46:34 <DanC>	BillD: this looks like an erratum then; the grammar had a typo.
09:47:38 <DanC>	EriCM: let's note this in both places: the errata and the developers page.
09:48:44 <DanC>	BrianM: "namespace prefixed" should become "namespace qualified" several times in the spec.
09:48:44 *	em  notes that syntacitic inclusion was an early requirement from PICS ... and wonders if this is no longer a requirement
09:49:28 <DanC>	"prefixed" doesn't occur in the spec.
09:51:58 <DanC>	DaveB: I have 7 tests.
09:54:20 <ArtB>	A12: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-rdfcore-wg/2001May/0178.html
09:55:40 *	em  raises hand
09:57:15 <DanC>	ACTION BrianM: edit the errata per the resolutions above
09:57:56 <DanC>	ACTION DaveB: assemble test cases and suggest details of how the grammar in the spec should be updated.
09:58:29 <DanC>	======= test cases
09:58:58 <DanC>	jang: we have an evolving convention for test case input; I have a suggestion for "expected results" format. that I intend to send.
09:59:23 <DanC>	ACTION JanG: propose expected results format.
09:59:36 <jang>	ouch
09:59:38 <jang>	out of time
09:59:55 <DanC>	for the record, another meeting is scheduled one week hence, yes?
10:00:00 <jang>	yes
10:00:10 <DanC>	I'd prefer an answer from the chair.
10:00:13 <dajobe-bwm>	yes
10:00:16 <DanC>	thx.
10:00:22 <dajobe-bwm>	yes
10:00:23 <DanC>	oops... you're not the chair.
10:00:34 <DanC>	yes, you are! That's why I get confused!
10:00:39 <dajobe-bwm>	next meeting in one week at same time
10:00:41 ---	dajobe-bwm is now known as bwm
10:00:49 <bwm>	next meeting is next week
10:01:05 <DanC>	ugh... it's really not optimal to take scribe duties when you have lots to say. ;-)
10:01:34 <bwm>	thanks for your help Dan.  Can we talk about errata/issue list offline - not now I'm exhausted.
10:01:40 <DanC>	ok.
10:02:03 <DanC>	=========== ADJOURN.


Received on Friday, 25 May 2001 14:22:01 EDT

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