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Minutes of DAWG 2005-02-15 telcon for review

From: Dave Beckett <dave.beckett@bristol.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:27:15 +0000
To: public-rdf-dawg@w3.org
Message-Id: <1108484836.3847.8.camel@hoth.ilrt.bris.ac.uk>

Minutes of RDF DAWG telecon 2005-02-15 for review

RDF Data Access WG telcon
2005-02-15 14:30 UTC

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0125.html

IRC log
http://www.w3.org/2005/02/15-dawg-irc



1. Convene, take roll, review records and agenda

Atendees: Yoshio Fukushige, Dan Connolly, Janne Saarela, Andy
Seabourne, 
	  Jos De Roo, Steve Harris, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Dave Beckett, 
          Kendall Clark, Alberto Reggiori

Regrets: Pat Hayes

Scribe: Dave Beckett


RESOLVED to accept 8 Feb 2005 minutes as a true record.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0115.html

next meeting: 22 Feb
  scribe: Howard Katz


ACTION: KendallC to Announce the protocol spec
DONE

The follwoing action items are continued without discussion:
ACTION: DanC to ask Liam, via SemWeb CG, which XML groups might be
        interested in SPARQL result set WD 
ACTION: KendallC: to propose a solution to protocolRootReferent
ACTION: SteveH to to propose tests for str() and =~
ACTION: SteveH to to revise test manifest w.r.t. "background" and named
graphs
ACTION: DanC: suggest formal definitions for SOURCE
ACTION: DaveB: discuss warnings in result set spec
ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve


2. F2F5 and F2F6

F2F5 is  27 February - 1 March 2005 Cambridge, MA
part of W3C Technical plenary 

DAWG registrations
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TP2005/registrants#dawg

Review of WG members against attendees above.  Includes the list of
observers, 11 at this time. [More observers than WG registrants :) -
scribe]

Regrets: AlbertoR, DaveB, HowardK
Tentative/indirect regrets: BryanT
Partial conflict; KendallC (with a NASA interop session in SWIG),
  DanC (1/2 day)
Possible regrets: JanneS

Discussion of remote dial-in possibilities.  Requested by AlbertoR,
AlbertoR.  Maybe 2-3 hours max each day, DanC to consider and to make
any AV requests.


F2F6

ACTION: DanC to consider Asemantics hosting proposal w.r.t. WG schedule
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-
dawg/2005JanMar/0072.html
ACTION: SteveH to propose to host in Southampton right after XTech
ACTION: PatH to propose to host in Florida
Continued

3. valueTesting, XSCH

ACTION: EricP and PathH will review XSCH draft document
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/XSCH/xsch-sw-20050127/
CONTINUED (with progress)

SWBPD WG is expecting to decide to publish at their F2F at the Tech
Plenary so would like feedback before then.

ACTION: SteveH to review
<http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#tests>
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0114.html
DONE

ACTION: JosD to review
<http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#tests>
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0127.html
CONTINUED (with partial progress)


Discussion of constraints expressed as triples vs them in AND clause.
Some things may not be (so easily) expressed as triples compared to
them in the expression language.  Experience here from n3.  The
examples in 0127 had literals as subjects so weren't good for sparql
as defined now.  Alberto presented some  ical/RDF-cal examples using
contraints into triple-patterns (e.g. dates comparinsons) at
  http://demo.asemantics.com/zparqler/examples/example8.html  

	PREFIX ical: <http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/ical#>
	SELECT ?uri ?summary ?dtstart
	FROM <rdfstore://localhost:1234/xannouncements>
	WHERE 
	    (?uri ical:summary ?summary)
	    (?uri ical:dtstart ?dtstart)
	    (?dtstart op:dateTime-greater-than "2000-06-00T00:00:00A")

Two problems here - literal subjects and "2000-06-00T00:00:00A" isn't
a xsd:dateTime literal.

Discussion of the set of predicates that sparql engines must
understand - the op:* above.  EricP reports that the current rq23 draft
does not require recognising this.  Alberto and DaveB remembered this
being present once but it was removed by AndyS [for reasons the
scribe lost track of in the discussion - interoperability?].

ACTION JosD: Make 2 test cases over the same data using the
op:dateTime predicate and without using it.


4. SPARQL Query Language publication

ACTION: EricP to to update rq23 w.r.t. BOUND/UNSAID
DONE

ACTION: EricP, make sure editor's draft as an inline issue (to be
published) that we need to work this out
CONTINUED

Minor Syntax issues Seaborne, Andy (Friday, 11 February)
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0118.html

AndyS asked for more responses on thsi thread to enable gather up
possible syntax issues in order to address any needed changes.

Discussion of OPTIONAL and [] both allowed at present.  AndyS and
EricP both expressed preferences for just having the OPTIONAL
keyword.  AndyS's current thoughts on the other thread issues are to
delete [] for optionals, keep BOUND(?x), keep AND and keep functions
syntax the same as written now in rq23.

BOUND(?x)'s defined in
   11.2.1.2 sop:bound
   http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#func-isBound
by defining the behavour of op:bound


5. Service Descriptions

ACTION: SteveH to Write up a service description of features supported
for his service
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0113.html
DONE

Steve's unsure about the dawg:usesOntology term - both the term name
and the semantics.  It seems useful to state "this thing knows about
foaf"
but what that means or if it implies understanding, isn't so clear
and he requested help.  Alternatives could be to allow multiple
service points (nodes) that related to the main entry point but
allowed different supported ontologies, query languages, results
formats.


ACTION: KendallC to to think about predicate to relate html-forms and
svc descriptions, and how this goes into the spec
CONTINUED

ACTION: KendallC to Add section for service descriptions and put graph
specifying in it to start it off
CONTINUED

ACTION: KendallC: discuss warnings in the protocol spec.
CONTINUED

ACTION: DanC to Write up definitive service concept
CONTINUED

ACTION: DanC to write up "sparqlParam" approach (reply to kendallC)
CONTINUED

ACTION: DanC to discuss accessingCollections in service description
context
CONTINUED

ACTION: EricP: to inviestigate WSDL/SOAP encodings of SPARQL protocol
CONTINUED but DanC has made some progress on this with Philippe Le
Hégaret working with WSDL 2.0.


6. Documents to read for F2F5 meeting

To be considered 1 week before the meeting, 21st February 2005.

SPARQL Protocol http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/
The  last substantive change before helsinki f2f but there is more
stuff not yet commited and yet to add, expect to be available by
21st.

SPARQL Variable Binding Results
Not expected to be avail 21st.
DaveB to try to deliver updated VBR by 28th Feb

SPARQL Query Language
Document published this week will be on the reading list for F2F5.

The Appendix on N3 syntax alternatives may be at risk although EricP
may have time to work on them before publication this week.


DanC noted that he is trying to put Turtle out as a Semantic Web
Interest Group note.  Turtle is used in DAWG test cases and in our
documents (above) mostly in a cutdown form as abbreviated triples.


Adjourned
Received on Tuesday, 15 February 2005 16:27:52 GMT

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