Re: Identifying to which note a grace note is attached

Well, I understood "within the same measure" was not crucial for Simon's 
question, maybe I am wrong. But the examples from the VERZIERUNGEN link 
are apparently meant as Nachschlag, you can see one of them in the first 
staff of, e.g., 
http://imslp.org/wiki/7_Variations_sur_un_th%C3%A8me_original,_Op.9_(Weber,_Carl_Maria_von) 
<http://imslp.org/wiki/7_Variations_sur_un_th%C3%A8me_original,_Op.9_%28Weber,_Carl_Maria_von%29>. 
I don't know an example immediately preceding a barline, for now.

Kind regards,
Bernd
Am 21.09.2017 um 14:30 schrieb Joe Berkovitz:
> Hi Bernd,
>
> I was referring specifically to the case where there is no following 
> normal note *within the same measure*. I have not seen examples in the 
> literature where grace/appoggiaturas immediately precede a barline, as 
> in Simon's example. But it's quite possible that I've missed this. It 
> would be great for the MNX effort if you could supply an example of 
> this case from the literature.
>
> .            .       .    .  . ...Joe
>
> Joe Berkovitz
> Founder
> Noteflight LLC
>
> 49R Day Street
> Somerville MA 02144
> USA
>
> "Bring music to life"
> www.noteflight.com <http://www.noteflight.com>
>
> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 4:12 PM, Bernd Jungmann <bjungmann@t-online.de 
> <mailto:bjungmann@t-online.de>> wrote:
>
>     Hi Joe and Simon,
>
>     "not seen in conventional notated music"?
>
>     In capella, we support both appoggiatura and passing appoggiatura.
>     In German, the terms are Vorschlag and Nachschlag. I find various
>     examples for Nachschlag
>     (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verzierung_(Musik)#Nachschlag
>     <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verzierung_%28Musik%29#Nachschlag>,
>     http://www.klavier-noten.com/musik-literatur/VERZIERUNGEN.pdf
>     <http://www.klavier-noten.com/musik-literatur/VERZIERUNGEN.pdf>),
>     but none for passing appoggiatura. Maybe passing appoggiatura it
>     is not the correct English term. But Nachschlag seems to be well
>     known.
>     In our MusicXML export, we use the steal-time-previous attribute
>     for Nachschlag notes, and hope that the steal-time-following
>     attribute (documented "as for appoggiaturas"), will be implicitly
>     applied if the note has a <grace/> element.
>
>     Kind regards,
>     Bernd Jungmann
>     www.capella-software.com <http://www.capella-software.com>
>
>     Am 20.09.2017 um 19:09 schrieb Joe Berkovitz:
>>     Hi Simon,
>>
>>     In both notated music and in MusicXML, grace notes and
>>     appoggiaturas are not "attached" to notes that follow them
>>     (although ties or slurs could provide such connections, as they
>>     do in non-grace-note cases). They simply precede the following
>>     notes, in their order of occurrence on the page or in a document.
>>
>>     If an application has a notion of attachment, that's up to the
>>     application. MusicXML doesn't need to encode attachment, because
>>     music notation doesn't have an inherent notion of such attachment.
>>
>>     That second scenario (grace note following normal note at the end
>>     of a measure) is not seen in conventional notated music. Although
>>     one could write it and encode it, its interpretation would be
>>     unclear to a performer. It's not so much that the layout is
>>     correct or incorrect, as that the conventional interpretation of
>>     a grace note or appoggiatura is dependent on some normal note
>>     that follows it in the same measure.
>>
>>     Hope this helps,
>>
>>     .            .   .    .  . ...Joe
>>
>>     Joe Berkovitz
>>     Founder
>>     Noteflight LLC
>>
>>     49R Day Street
>>     <https://maps.google.com/?q=49R+Day+Street+%0D+Somerville+MA+02144+%0D+USA&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>     Somerville MA 02144
>>     USA
>>
>>     "Bring music to life"
>>     www.noteflight.com <http://www.noteflight.com>
>>
>>     On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Simon Giddings
>>     <mr.s.giddings@gmail.com <mailto:mr.s.giddings@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         Good afternoon,
>>
>>         Firstly, my comprehension of music notation is not extensive,
>>         so please forgive me if I make any clearly wrong assumptions.
>>
>>         When using notation software, we can add a grace note or
>>         appoggiatura to either the start of a note or after it.
>>         At this point, we can decide to link the notes with a tie, a
>>         slur or nothing as in this manner.
>>
>>
>>         I have two questions :
>>
>>          1. In MusicXML, how can I detect which to note the grace
>>             note is attached since there is no tie or slur ?
>>          2. Is this layout correct specifically for the second scenario ?
>>
>>         Best regards
>>         Simon Giddings
>>
>>
>
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