RE: PUBLIC id in notations - oops

Yes, as Norman Walsh pointed out in [1], Schema for Schemas is wrong in
requiring the "public" attribute
where the definition text in [2] doesn't.
 
The fact that at least "public" or "system" should be provided can currently
not be fully expressed
by XML schemas.
 
 
[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/xmlschema-dev/2002Jan/0286.html
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/xmlschema-dev/2002Jan/0286.html> 
[2] http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-1/#Notation_Declaration_details
<http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-1/#Notation_Declaration_details> 
 
Anli Shundi 
TIBCO Extensibility 
www.extensibility.com 


-----Original Message-----
From: Anderson, John [mailto:John@Barbadosoft.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 11:03 AM
To: 'Anli Shundi'; xml-dev@lists.xml.org; W3C XML Schema IG;
xmlschema-dev@w3.org
Subject: RE: PUBLIC id in notations - oops



To be honest, I'm not convinced: 

[75]   ExternalID   ::=   'SYSTEM' S SystemLiteral | 'PUBLIC' S PubidLiteral
S SystemLiteral 


[82]   NotationDecl   ::=   '<!NOTATION' S Name S (ExternalID | PublicID) S?
'>' 

As far as I know, the combination of these productions means that NOTATION
can have either ExternalId OR PublicId. ExternalId is defined such that it
may have either a SYSTEM identifier or PUBLIC and System together.

This gives three possibilities in DTDs: 
<!NOTATION mynotation PUBLIC "-//somepublicId/EN"> 
<!NOTATION mynotation SYSTEM " http://notationfactory.com/mynotation
<http://notationfactory.com/mynotation> "> 
<!NOTATION mynotation PUBLIC "-//somepublicId/EN" "
http://notationfactory.com/mynotation
<http://notationfactory.com/mynotation> "> 

By my definition, this makes the PUBLIC identifier optional, not required. 

I was mistaken about XSD in one respect - it does make systemId optional,
but in at least 2 out of 3 places (schema for schema and schema
representation), publicId is required (and, as I mentioned, enforced as so
by a number of processors/validators).

I would be delighted to be shown otherwise, 'cos it would make my life
easier. 

John 


_______________________________________________________ 
John Anderson 
CTO BarbadosoftTM 
The XML Management Company 
+31 (0)20 750 7582 / +31 (0)6 55 347 448 / www.barbadosoft.com 

- putting the "X" in "XML" - 


-----Original Message----- 
From: Anli Shundi [ mailto:ashundi@tibco.com <mailto:ashundi@tibco.com> ] 
Sent: 29 January 2002 16:36 
To: Anderson, John; xml-dev@lists.xml.org; W3C XML Schema IG;
xmlschema-dev@w3.org 
Subject: RE: PUBLIC id in notations 


Please check again: 

XML 1.0 Rec requires PublicId-s at notations.  See
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml#Notations
<http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml#Notations>  

XML Schema Spec at http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-1/#cNotation_Declarations
<http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-1/#cNotation_Declarations>  
says only that either the Public or System Identifiers must be present. 

Anli Shundi 
TIBCO Extensibility 
www.extensibility.com 
-----Original Message----- 
From: Anderson, John [ mailto:John@Barbadosoft.com
<mailto:John@Barbadosoft.com> ] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 10:22 AM 
To: xml-dev@lists.xml.org; W3C XML Schema IG; xmlschema-dev@w3.org 
Subject: PUBLIC id in notations 


Anyone who can advise: 
Some time ago I raised the issue of discrepancies between XML1.0 and XML
Schema with regard to notations, but I've forgotten the outcome and can't
find the thread. Can anyone can enlighten me?

XML1.0 says that the PUBLIC identifier is optional. The schema rec cannot
make up it's mind. 
In 3.12.1 "The Notation Declaration Schema Component", public identifier is
given as optional. 
In 3.12.2 "XML Representation of Notation Declaration", and in the schema
for Schema, it is given as mandatory (and is treated this way by a number of
processors). Of course, the schema for schemas has no choice, since at least
one of system or public is required and XSD can't express this as a
co-constraint.

Can anyone explain: 
a) Why this mismatch with XML1.0 was introduced in XSD? 
b) Is it actually a bug which will be changed? 
c) If it isn't a bug, what is the recommended way of converting DTDs into
XSD when no public identifiers are given? 
Any help appreciated. 
John 



_______________________________________________________ 
John Anderson 
CTO BarbadosoftTM 
The XML Management Company 
+31 (0)20 750 7582 / +31 (0)6 55 347 448 / www.barbadosoft.com 
- putting the "X" in "XML" - 


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