Re: FW: Minutes, 13 May 2004 WS Desc telcon

Is it just me or does every sentence look chopped off in these minutes?

Jonathan Marsh wrote:

> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Glen Daniels [mailto:gdaniels@sonicsoftware.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:50 AM
> To: Jonathan Marsh
> Subject: Minutes
> 
> 
> Jonathan:
> 
> Here are the generated minutes for the telcon last week.  It looks a
> little weird to me in a couple of places, but that just seems to be on
> my machine - looks OK on David Booth's.
> 
> I cut out the AI review since the script kind of mangled that based on
> the way I did it (cutting and pasting with line breaks confused the
> script), and David said you usually put that stuff in anyway.
> 
> I didn't know how to merge the attendance record in, so I just put it in
> a <pre> tag.  If this isn't right, please let me know how you like it
> done and I'll fix it.
> 
> --Glen
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> <http://www.w3.org/>
> 
> 
>   WSDL Telcon
>   13 May 2004
> 
> See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2004/05/13-ws-desc-irc>
> 
> 
>     Attendees
> 
> Present:
>  Erik Ackerman          Lexmark
>  David Booth            W3C
>  Allen Brookes          Rogue Wave Software
>  Roberto Chinnici       Sun Microsystems
>  Ugo Corda              SeeBeyond
>  Glen Daniels           Sonic Software
>  Paul Downey            British Telecommunications
>  Youenn Fablet          Canon
>  Hugo Haas              W3C
>  Hao He                 Thomson
>  Tom Jordahl            Macromedia
>  Amelia Lewis           TIBCO
>  Kevin Canyang Liu      SAP
>  Jonathan Marsh         Chair (Microsoft)
>  Josephine Micallef     Telcordia/SAIC 
>  Jeff Mischkinsky       Oracle
>  Dale Moberg            Cyclone Commerce
>  Jean-Jacques Moreau    Canon
>  David Orchard          BEA Systems
>  Bijan Parsia           University of Maryland MIND Lab
>  Arthur Ryman           IBM
>  Igor Sedukhin          Computer Associates
>  William Vambenepe      Hewlett-Packard
>  Sanjiva Weerawarana    IBM
>  Umit Yalcinalp         Oracle
>  Prasad Yendluri        webMethods, Inc.
> 
> Regrets:
>  None
> 
> 
>     Contents
> 
>     * Topics <#agenda>
>          1. 2. Approval of minutes <#item01>
>          2. 3. Review of Action item [.1]. <#item02>
>          3. 4. Administrivia <#item03>
>          4. 5. Task Force Status. <#item04>
>          5. 6. New Issues. Issues list [.1]. <#item05>
>          6. 7. Issue 54: Allow binding to any HTTP method [.1] <#item06>
>          7. 8. HTTP [optimization] properties [.1]: <#item07>
>     * Summary of Action Items <#ActionSummary>
> 
> 
>       2. Approval of minutes
> 
> UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: - May 6th [.1]
> 
> APPROVED
> 
> 
>       3. Review of Action item [.1].
> 
> ? 2004-01-28: Philippe and JMarsh will look at the ip
> 
> scribe: test suite.
> 
> <scribe> PENDING
> 
> <scribe> DONE [.2] 2004-02-12: DaveO to produce a refined proposal for
> 
> UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: HTTP binding addressing the concerns of
> ...that object to leaving replyTo info out
> 
> ? 2004-04-01: Marsh will get schema tf going.
> 
> <scribe> PENDING
> 
> <scribe> DONE [.3] 2004-04-29: Arthur to write up concerns about XML 1
> 
> UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: implications on WSDL 2.0 for potential
> ...forwarding to XML WG.
> 
> ? 2004-04-29: Umit to work with Anish to create a wor
> 
> scribe: draft on media types ready for our May
> ...meeting in NYC.
> 
> <scribe> PENDING
> 
> ? 2004-04-29: Part 1 editors to adopt Jacek's "purpos
> 
> scribe: binding" text, without "interchangeable
> ...endpoints, and using "confidentiality"
> ...similar) instead of TLS.
> 
> <scribe> PENDING
> 
> ? 2004-05-06: JJM to incorporate this proposal (SOAP
> 
> scribe: Binding) after removing parts that are
> ...to media type and intermediary
> 
> <scribe> PENDING, partially done
> 
> <scribe> DONE 2004-05-06: Marsh to draft David O or Hugo to write
> 
> UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: proposal for describing the requirement
> ...capabilities bucket of http features
> 
> ? 2004-05-06: Part 3 editors to incorporate Sanjiva's
> 
> scribe: proposal.
> 
> <scribe> DONE
> 
> ? 2004-04-29: Umit to work with Anish to create a wor
> 
> scribe: draft on media types ready for our May
> ...meeting in NYC.
> 
> <scribe> DONE (Umit arrived and updated us)
> 
> 
>       4. Administrivia
> 
> Jonathan: Will try to get draft agenda out EOD Friday
> 
> Proposed testing meeting Thursday afternoon in NYC for those
> 
> Umit: What's up with MTOM/XOP?
> 
> Jonathan: We should have some discussion about that at the F2
> ...Goal was to finish all issues - not too likely at t
> 
> Kevin: Phone access?
> 
> Sanjiva: Should be phone, but not sure of quality...
> ...c. Review of I18N WS Task Force documents [.6]
> 
> [.6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004May/
> 
> 
>       5. Task Force Status.
> 
> UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: a. Media type description
> ...- Draft of first WD for WG approval by May FTF.
> 
> Jonathan: Would be good to get consensus on publishing the dr
> 
> 
>       6. New Issues. Issues list [.1].
> 
> UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: - Track operation safety (TAG) [.2]
> 
> Opening new issue
> 
> scribe: - Normative dependence on XML Schema 1.0 precludes XML 1.1
> ...- Can a WSDL 2.0 XML 1.1 document contain (or reference), a
> ...- Is it valid for a XML 1.1 document to import or include a
> 
> Add new issues
> 
> 
>       7. Issue 54: Allow binding to any HTTP method [.1]
> 
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/0093.
> 
> Hugo: (summarizes proposal)
> 
> Jonathan: Big question is do we want extensibility at the me
> 
> David: Wanted to see concrete proposal before going ahead.
> 
> Jonathan: Issues with having a QName as opposed to an HTTP-sp
> 
> Arthur: Why not just a string?
> 
> Jonathan: Name collisions, IBM-foo vs. Microsoft-foo
> 
> Arthur: Arent these HTTP verbs? GET, POST, etc?
> 
> Hugo: This came from discussion of using HTTP method as metho
> ...This means you need to specify a bunch of things, which
> 
> <pauld> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/0042.h
> 
> Sanjiva: Clarify what this proposal is about?
> 
> Jonathan: Status quo == a string for method, with various oth
> 
> Sanjiva: For common usage, the HTTP method might be variable,
> ...Capture extensibility in
> ...HTTP methods by using a String
> 
> Arthur: Combining how you're serializing with the method seem
> 
> DavidO: Maybe we should change "method" to "method-and-relate
> 
> Paul: On the wire, both IBM:BUY and MS:BUY would be the same.
> 
> DavidO: Tooling would know that particular serializations, et
> 
> Umit: There's a distinction between method and the other stuf
> 
> JeffM: Does this lead to everyone defining QNames for every c
> 
> DavidO: Basic HTTP should only have a few. Trying to provide
> 
> JeffM: How does this optimize for the simple case, do we spec
> 
> DavidO: For basic HTTP, yes
> 
> JeffM: Why not F&P, by the way?
> 
> Hugo: Table 3.1 is modelled on the XForms submission table, a
> 
> <umit> +1 to Arthur
> 
> Arthur: Why not just have attributes for basic stuff like me
> 
> <sanjiva> I'm confused as to why we don't introduce http:serialization
> 
> <Arthur> +1 to Sanjiva
> 
> DavidO: F&P vs. WSDL extensibility is a separate issue
> 
> <Arthur> +1
> 
> <Arthur> +q
> 
> DavidO: We have use cases for this stuff, but they aren't gre
> 
> <umit> +1 to Marsh :-)
> 
> <sanjiva> +1 too!
> 
> Jonathan: Why isn't it better to enable extensibility for eac
> 
> DavidO: Worried about a more-complex-looking proposal...
> 
> Arthur: QName makes spec harder to read (as opposed to "GET",
> ...Doesn't scale if you need new QName for every combo
> 
> DavidO: Do we have a "full potato" proposal?
> 
> Hugo: Had one, but it looked overly complicated...
> 
> scribe note - "full potato" == allow setting all properties i
> 
> DavidO: Can the group see it?
> 
> Jonathan: Would no extensibility for method be OK?
> 
> Arthur: We clearly have a requirement from somewhere (WEBDAV)
> 
> Jonathan: Isn't strictly a requirement yet...
> 
> <Zakim> sanjiva, you wanted to make a proposal
> 
> Arthur: Why exclude WEBDAV folks, though
> 
> <pauld> and Atom uses PUT and DELETE ...
> 
> Sanjiva: Change method name to string, values are same as HTT
> ...Then introduce properties as needed
> 
> Jonathan: Yes, you mean the "full potato"
> ...Big question is do we want a full-featured HTTP bin
> 
> <sanjiva> In my mind, doing a full featured HTTP binding begs for prof
> 
> DavidO: Want to make this real, and will peel however many po
> 
> Arthur: Simple case shouldn't be complicated.
> 
> Jonathan: If you say "PUT" that should default other properti
> 
> <sanjiva> I'm against defaulting serialization format - just make it a
> 
> Hugo: Full potato with clever defaulting is what we should ex
> 
> Jonathan: Sounds like...
> 
> 
>       8. HTTP [optimization] properties [.1]:
> 
> UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: - Summary:
> ...+ HTTP Version
> ...+ Content coding
> ...+ Transfer Codings (Chunked encoding)
> ...+ Caching (Vary, etc.)
> ...+ Content Negotiation ?
> 
> [.1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004May/
> 
> [.2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004Apr/
> 
> [.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2004May/
> 
> DavidO: Certain common cases will cause Content coding not to
> 
> (darn return key)
> 
> DavidO: ...used
> ...Two buckets - required and extensions. Transfer codi
> 
> Jonathan: Clear that some of these things are needed, and the
> ...Need to figure out which of these things goes in, s
> ...Do we need these in the core spec? (back to questio
> 
> DavidO: Getting most of the HTTP functionality seems pretty s
> 
> Jonathan: Looks like adding 10-15 attributes, which in most c
> 
> Glen: If people want to do these things, we should supply the
> 
> Jonathan: How many folks are psyched about implementing this?
> 
> Arthur: Setting all this stuff up doesn't have a lot of benef
> ...It's really a small optimization (saving round trips)
> 
> <dbooth> GlenD: If you're a cell phone, an additional round trip is a bi
> 
> Paul: +1 to Glen, mobile interactions are expensive, so optim
> ...Also, optimization in general (GZIP available, etc) is
> 
> DavidO: BEA has been deploying GET and POST with tweakable se
> ...You need to know what uname/pw to use, for instance,
> 
> <pauld> how to describe a service is protected by BA is something i'm
> 
> Sanjiva: May be properties which affect the programming model
> ...Rest as hints/optimizations are OK
> 
> Paul: Can we reuse this stuff with the SOAP HTTP binding?
> 
> Glen: SOAP HTTP binding is different than WSDL HTTP binding
> 
> Paul: Lots of useful work here.. why not reuse?
> 
> Glen: Would want to vet anything like that (adding properties
> 
> Jonathan: Anyone +1 Arthur's concern about not going there wi
> 
> TomJ: +1
> 
> Jonathan: Most folks sound like they're up for some level of
> 
> DavidO: Two things - 1) "full potato" proposal, 2) Transfer-c
> 
> Jonathan: Would be good to have proposed syntax for each of t
> 
> <scribe> *ACTION:* Dave Orchard to produce proposal for expressing Trans
> 
> greek chorus: <silence>
> 
> Jonathan: If no proposals, we won't put 'em in...
> 
> <dbooth> [Meeting Adjourned]
> 
> 
>     Summary of Action Items
> 
> *[NEW]* *ACTION:* Dave Orchard to produce proposal for expressing Trans
>  
> Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl 1.79 
> <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribe.perl> (CVS log 
> <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/scribe.perl>)
> $Date: 2004/05/11 13:37:20 $
>

Received on Thursday, 20 May 2004 13:51:48 UTC