- From: Martin Gudgin <mgudgin@microsoft.com>
- Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:15:50 -0700
- To: "Umit Yalcinalp" <umit.yalcinalp@oracle.com>
- Cc: "Sanjiva Weerawarana" <sanjiva@watson.ibm.com>, <www-ws-desc@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <DD35CC66F54D8248B6E04232892B6338203A54@RED-MSG-43.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Umit, Yes, you're right. Except it's not us defining the visibility rules, but XML Schema. Gudge ________________________________ From: Umit Yalcinalp [mailto:umit.yalcinalp@oracle.com] Sent: 20 October 2003 20:14 To: Martin Gudgin Cc: Sanjiva Weerawarana; www-ws-desc@w3.org Subject: Re: Can one inline schema import definitions from a second inline schema? Martin Gudgin wrote: We're not saying anything about the way other people's specs work, that IS the way schema works: A imports B imports C Constructs in C are not visible to A I guess what you are implying is that the way the Sample Apps xsd and wsdls are written today will need to be changed. The BP recommended pattern <wsdl:types><xsd:schema><xsd:import>.... is used by Sample Apps to incorporate the schemas. With the visibility rules as specified in our spec today, these will need to be rewritten as <wsdl:types><xs:import> to get the same visibility and to reuse the components. Gudge --umit -----Original Message----- From: www-ws-desc-request@w3.org [mailto:www-ws-desc-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Sanjiva Weerawarana Sent: 20 October 2003 18:27 To: www-ws-desc@w3.org Subject: Re: Can one inline schema import definitions from a second inline schema? Obviously I didn't understand it then and I don't understand it now. Why do we say that imported components are not available to WSDL? In general, why do we go saying things about other people's specs?? Also, isn't the replacement really <xs:schema><xs:include .../></xs:schema> ?? But then what do I know about schema. Sanjiva. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Gudgin" <mgudgin@microsoft.com> <mailto:mgudgin@microsoft.com> To: "Sanjiva Weerawarana" <sanjiva@watson.ibm.com> <mailto:sanjiva@watson.ibm.com> ; <www-ws-desc@w3.org> <mailto:www-ws-desc@w3.org> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 11:15 PM Subject: RE: Can one inline schema import definitions from a second inline schema? Except that putting in <xs:schema><xs:import ... /> </xs:schema> DOES NOT make the imported constructs visible to WSDL ( we had this debate last year ) Gudge -----Original Message----- From: www-ws-desc-request@w3.org [mailto:www-ws-desc-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Sanjiva Weerawarana Sent: 20 October 2003 18:11 To: www-ws-desc@w3.org Subject: Re: Can one inline schema import definitions from a second inline schema? We can avoid all this subtelty if we just say <types> can contain only one <xsd:schema>. I actually don't even like us allowing <xsd:import> directly inside types - if you want that just put a <xsd:schema> and an import inside it. Sanjiva. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amelia A. Lewis" <alewis@tibco.com> <mailto:alewis@tibco.com> To: <paul.downey@bt.com> <mailto:paul.downey@bt.com> Cc: <mgudgin@microsoft.com> <mailto:mgudgin@microsoft.com> ; <umit.yalcinalp@oracle.com> <mailto:umit.yalcinalp@oracle.com> ; <ryman@ca.ibm.com> <mailto:ryman@ca.ibm.com> ; <www-ws-desc@w3.org> <mailto:www-ws-desc@w3.org> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 10:22 PM Subject: Re: Can one inline schema import definitions from a second inline schema? Oops! That's an implication that I hadn't even thought of. You're absolutely right; WS-I prohibits references between embedded schemas in this way. I wonder if they knew that it had that effect? Amy! On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:57:55 +0100 paul.downey@bt.com wrote: it could be my mistake, but i understand R2004: <<[must not] import a Schema from any document whose root element is not "schema" >> as prohibiting import of a namespace from one in-line schema into another in-line schema, since the root element of a WSDL document is "definitions". As always, i'm prepared to be wrong .. in fact i'd like to be wrong here: i'm responsible for several .NET generated WSDLs that schema import namespaces between multiple in-line schemas using a missing schemaLocation value. Paul [2004] http://ws-i.org/Profiles/Basic/2003-08/BasicProfile-1.0a.htm#r efinement34101 304 http://tinyurl.com/rary -----Original Message----- From: Amelia A. Lewis [mailto:alewis@tibco.com] Sent: 20 October 2003 15:54 To: Downey,PS,Paul,XSJ67A C Cc: mgudgin@microsoft.com; umit.yalcinalp@oracle.com; ryman@ca.ibm.com; www-ws-desc@w3.org Subject: Re: Can one inline schema import definitions from a second inline schema? I don't understand. WS-I prohibited use of wsdl:import to import schema, and requires that xs:import be inside xs:schema inside wsdl:types (bare xs:import inside wsdl:types is allowed in wsdl.next). It prohibits use of any schema language other than W3C XML Schema, and prohibits import of fragments (these from Anne Thomas Manes quotes of the WS-I BP). I was not aware of a prohibition of imports of embedded schema; could you cite or quote this requirement? Amy! On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:42:41 +0100 paul.downey@bt.com wrote: I'm not sure I understand how is WSDL 2.0 clearer in this regard than WSDL 1.1 ? My concern is unless the rules are absolutely clear on how to reference across in-line schemas, it will require profiling out again in 2.0. I assume the WS-I prohibited importing an in-line schema namespace because the 1.1 rules were unclear, not because of some other interoperability issue ? Paul -----Original Message----- From: Martin Gudgin [mailto:mgudgin@microsoft.com] Sent: 19 October 2003 15:23 To: Downey,PS,Paul,XSJ67A C; umit.yalcinalp@oracle.com; ryman@ca.ibm.com Cc: www-ws-desc@w3.org Subject: RE: Can one inline schema import definitions from a second inline schema? The BP is defined over WSDL 1.1, and it's true that in WSDL 1.1 the schema processing rules are unclear. I think WSDL 2.0 is much clearer in this regard and see no real reason to prohibit references across in-line schemas. Gudge -----Original Message----- From: www-ws-desc-request@w3.org [mailto:www-ws-desc-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of paul.downey@bt.com Sent: 19 October 2003 08:57 To: umit.yalcinalp@oracle.com; ryman@ca.ibm.com Cc: www-ws-desc@w3.org Subject: RE: Can one inline schema import definitions from a second inline schema? Ümit wrote: I would rather see inlined schemas to dissappear altogether from WSDL. Instead of discussing the semantics and the interpretation of inlined schemas within WSDL, the problem can be left to Schema completely. I've thus far found stand-alone WSDLs very useful, but if the rules are unclear how to reference between in-line schemas, and the BP effectively prohibits it, then I agree: we should consider removing inline schemas from WSDL. Paul -- Amelia A. Lewis Architect, TIBCO/Extensibility, Inc. alewis@tibco.com -- Amelia A. Lewis Architect, TIBCO/Extensibility, Inc. alewis@tibco.com -- Umit Yalcinalp Consulting Member of Technical Staff ORACLE Phone: +1 650 607 6154 Email: umit.yalcinalp@oracle.com
Received on Monday, 20 October 2003 15:16:18 UTC