- From: Champion, Mike <Mike.Champion@SoftwareAG-USA.com>
- Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 18:53:41 -0700
- To: distobj@acm.org
- Cc: www-ws-arch@w3.org
Mark, This is in response to your comments [1] and [2] concerning the Web Services Architecture working draft(s), which were noted as Issues 27 and 28 in our issues list [3] We discussed them at our March F2F meeting and concluded that they raise closely related topics that we will address together. To summarize briefly: "I request that Web services network stack model be described (and layers & terms defined) and that this description be related to the IETF and/or OSI network stack models." [1] "I'd like to point out that the architecture document misuses the term "transport protocol" in places, at least with respect to what it's generally understood to mean outside of the Web services community. In particular, it refers to HTTP and other application protocols as transport protocols" [2] First, there is no consensus in the WG as to exactly how the Web services "stack(s)" relate to the OSI reference model. On the other hand, there *is* a consensus that this question does not need to be answered in order for the WS Architecture to meet its requirements. One might say that most implementations of SOAP are clearly at the OSI "application" layer; does that mean that the underlying protocol used to move SOAP messages around should be something other than an "application" protocol? We believe that time devoted to addressing this murky question would not be well-spent. In any event, the OSI reference model is *not* a normative input to this WG, and we consider its applicability to be mainly heuristic rather than formal. This leads to the question of what a "transport protocol" is and whether the WSA document misuses the term. Again, the members of the WG have different opinions, but no one expressed agreement with your oft-stated position that the distinction between "application protocol" and "transport protocol" is central to the Web and Web services architecture(s). One position that seems to beheld by several of us is that since a primary requirement of Web services is to be protocol-neutral, the question is moot. Perhaps we should explicitly state that sometimes messages are "tunneled" (or "smuggled") over a protocol that was designed for another purpose, and this has its plusses and minuses from an architectural viewpoint. We are unlikely to state that this is a Bad Thing, however. Someone noted that the phone network was not designed for data, and the IP network was not designed for voice, but people very successfully "tunnel" data over voice lines and voice over IP. Indeed, architectural components that may be used in ways unanticipated by their designers is generally something to be encouraged. Nevertheless, we believe that there is no point in confusing those who *do* find this a critical distinction and we will direct the editors to look for a more neutral term to describe the mechanism by which Web services messages are exchanged among Web services producers, intermediaries, and consumers. The term "underlying protocol" seems to have been used in the SOAP community, and it may suffice. To summarize: - we will not follow your request to relate the WSA "stack model" with the OSI reference model, because we do not believe this is necessary or useful. - we have directed the editors to avoid the term "transport protocol" when it can cause confusion, and to note that some Web services implementations "tunnel" HTTP. More generally, we will be adding a section to the WSA document that summarizes the discussions on our mailing list and at the W3C Technical Plenary about the alternative Web service architectural styles and their relationship to that of the hypertext Web. Drafts of that section will be presented to the public mailing list and we look forward to your input and comments. Best regards, Mike Champion co-chair, W3C Web Services Architecture Working Group [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-wsa-comments/2003Feb/0010.html [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-wsa-comments/2003Mar/0002.html [3] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/arch/2/issues/wsa-issues.html
Received on Wednesday, 2 April 2003 20:53:49 UTC