- From: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
- Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:12:40 -0600
- To: Jim Hendler <hendler@cs.umd.edu>
- CC: www-webont-wg@w3.org
Jim Hendler wrote: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2001Nov/0043.html > Date: Monday Nov 12 Attendance: 25 present Y Jeremy Carroll, Hewlett Packard Company Y Dan Connolly, W3C, Team contact Y Jonathan Dale, Fujitsu Limited Y Mike Dean (invited expert) Y Stefan Decker, Stanford Y Tim Finin, University of Maryland MIND Laboratory Y Nicholas Gibbins, University of Southampton Y Jeff Heflin (invited expert) Y James Hendler, Maryland Information and Network Dynamics Lab at the University of Maryland (chair) Y Ian Horrocks, Network Inference Y Ruediger Klein, Daimler Chrysler Research and Technology Y Michael Kohlhase, German Research Center for Artificial Intelligence (DFKI) Gmbh Y Ora Lassila, Nokia Y Deborah McGuinness, Stanford Y Libby Miller, University of Bristol Y Leo Obrst, MITRE Y Peter Patel-Schneider, Lucent Technologies Y Marwan Sabbouh, MITRE Y Michael Smith, Electronic Data System (EDS) Y Ned Smith, Intel Corporation Y Lynn Stein, invited expert Y Herman ter Horst, Philips Electronic N.V. Y Lynne R. Thompson, Unisys Corporation Y David Trastour, Hewlett Packard Company Y Frank van Harmelen, Ibrow Regets: NR Oisen Hurley, Iona Technologies, Inc. NR Guus Schreiber, Ibrow NR Michael Sintek, German Research Center for Artificial Intelligence (DFKI) Gmbh NR Warner ten Kate, Philips Electronic N.V. > AGENDA > The Agenda for this meeting is as follows. If you have additions to > the agenda, please email them to the webont group list before the > start of the teleconference. > > 1) ACTION ITEM REVIEW - Jim H (2 min) > > Completed actions: > ACTION DanC: announcement email to Rdf-logic, rdf-ig, rdf-rules > ACTION JimH: introduction email (and suggest people send a "who I am") > ACTION: DanC arrange bridge for: first phone call - Nov 12, 1500 EST > ACTION DanC - add Jim to WG chair list > ACTION - Jim H mail to invited experts with how to join > ACTION Jim - getting started email to WOW-G > ACTION DanC - Working Group list doesn't yet include webont (in the > T&S/SW area) so noted. > Open actions: > ACTION JimH - "roundtrip" email or phone with all working group members a few outstanding. > 2) Administrivia - Jim H. (~10 min) > Choice of scribe for this phone call. > Discussion of best time for future telecons (constraints and > process, not discussion of particular times - that will happen > through email) week of 22 Nov is not likely. stay tuned for news of next telcon sometime in the week of 26 Nov ACTION JimH: request telcon schedule input. NOTE WELL: everyone respond soon. > Discussion of first f2f - when, where, expectation issues. NOTE WELL: first face-to-face meeting is scheduled for 14/15 Jan 2002 in Murray Hill, NH, near Newark airport. ACTION PeterPS: send request regarding non-US citizens getting into Lucent. (done: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2001Nov/0061.html) > 3) Introduction and Expectations - Dan Connolly (~20 min) > quick overview by Dan of what is expected of working group by when. > Not a detailed process review (which will be presented on a later > call). > quick overview by Dan of expectations on WG members - what you need > to read, what you need to write, what you need to program > Group questions re: process/expectations [no decisions/actions. see log for details] > 4) Ontology - vision/goals; charter review - Jim Hendler (~20 min) > Discussion of ontologies on web, what WG is expected to do (and NOT > do). Review of charter [1] > [1] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/charter [no decisions/actions. see log for details] > Group questions re: goals, charter. > > 5) Open discussion: issues for group, needs of members, items for > getting started - Jim H. moderate (20 min) [no decisions/actions; see log for details.] IRC log follows... (taken from http://ilrt.org/discovery/chatlogs/webont/2001-11-12.txt) 20:00:59 <JHendler> =========== telecon starts =========== 20:01:07 <Frankh> Frankh has joined #webont 20:01:09 <JosD> JosD has joined #webont 20:02:31 <DanC> wow... 17 on the phone, per http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/Zakim.html 20:02:33 <jdale> jdale has joined #webont 20:02:41 <jdale> hello 20:02:49 <DanC> * DanC joins 20:03:12 <nmg> hi jon - how's SF today? 20:03:23 <DanC> 12 Nov agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2001Nov/0043.html 20:04:05 <jdale> pretty wet - very bad rain this morning 20:04:25 <dlm> and actually a little lightening and thunder - odd for sf 20:04:28 <jdale> not a good day to be driving - i saw at least 8 accidents on the 280 20:04:45 <jdale> seems to have calmed down a bit now 20:05:14 <las> las has joined #webont 20:05:39 <DanC> JimH: pls use the IRC channel for meeting business (including getting the chair's attention, clarifying). 20:05:43 <dlm> dlm is now known as DeborahMcGuinness 20:05:54 <jdale> are we supposed to be phoning in, too? 20:06:01 <DeborahMcGuinness> yes 20:06:04 <jdale> ah 20:06:10 <jdale> so what's the IRC session for? 20:06:26 <DeborahMcGuinness> just for scribing and for clarification 20:06:36 <jdale> * jdale dials in 20:06:41 <timfinin> timfinin has joined #webont 20:07:26 <stefanjdecker> stefanjdecker has joined #webont 20:07:28 <ora> ora has joined #webont 20:08:26 <jdale> hi tim 20:09:31 <DanC> $ grep ^Y nov12telcon|wc 20:09:31 <DanC> 24 162 1186 20:09:48 <DanC> ===== Roll Call 20:09:59 <DanC> 24 present. (details to be provided @@) 20:10:28 <DanC> ===== Agenda review 20:11:40 <DanC> JimH: administrative: during discussion items, please request the floor; the chair or discussion leader will give you the floor 20:13:03 <DanC> +Ned Smith, Intel Corporation 20:14:39 <DanC> == Teleconference times. 20:14:52 <las> * las wonders what telecon frequency is expected to be 20:15:12 <DanC> JimH: we span something like 14 time zones; it's unlikely we'll find something convenient to everyone. 20:15:31 <ora> * ora thinks once a week is typical 20:15:32 <DanC> DebM: we could perhaps alternate times 20:15:53 <stefanjdecker> stefanjdecker has quit 20:16:08 <DanC> ACTION JimH: request telcon schedule input. NOTE WELL: everyone respond soon. 20:16:18 <DanC> == Face to face schedule 20:16:27 <DanC> JimH: PeterPS has offered to host 1st ftf 20:16:53 <DanC> PeterPS: murray hill near [??] airport. [... scribe missed lots...]. trying to get a wireless net.... 20:22:39 <irc.openprojects.net> Disconnected from irc.openprojects.net (ERROR :Closing Link: logger_1[tatooine.ilrt.bris.ac.uk] by niven.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for logger_1[tatooine.ilrt.bris.ac.uk])) 20:23:02 <logger> logger has joined #webont 20:23:02 <asimov.openprojects.net> topic is: W3C WebOnt WG (http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/) 20:23:02 <asimov.openprojects.net> Users on #webont: logger las jdale JosD kohlhase Ian DeborahMcGuinness nmg pfps @JHendler @dajobe @DanC 20:23:06 <las> current events DanC will try to keep w/in a week or two of up to date 20:23:14 <las> telecon: we're in, you're all here... 20:23:22 <stefanjdecker> stefanjdecker has joined #webont 20:23:33 <las> membership in the group never closes, anyone who joins late has to get self up to speed, but you can always in principle join. 20:23:42 <las> JimH: we are not actively seeking new members. 20:23:43 <ora> ora has joined #webont 20:23:51 <las> * las apologizes, her phone connection is going in and out. 20:24:18 <las> schedule/milestones dates got out of synch between when they were written and now. 20:24:27 <las> jimh will update 20:25:06 <las> recommendation is highest formal goal 20:25:18 <las> something i missed precedes recommendation 20:25:37 <las> candidate recommendation precedes that, has several implementations. 20:25:56 <las> proposed rec is what i missed, and some wgs skip cand rec and go straight to prop rec if they're really in order 20:26:07 <las> publish working drafts at least every 3 months 20:26:34 <las> when a significant body of work is done, danc will push us to publish as a working draft 20:26:48 <las> we can change working drafts, but as we go further along we should try to change less. 20:27:02 <las> ian horrocks: what constitutes an implementation wrt the kind of thing we're looking at? 20:27:27 <DavidTrastour> DavidTrastour has joined #webont 20:27:32 <las> danC: I hope we'll build test suites and tools, but we'll have to talk about that as we go along 20:28:21 <las> note sched/milestones must be agreed upon with semantic web coordination group; others are waiting for our resources (including danc only committed for one year) 20:28:32 <las> membership: pretty much everyone here has jumped through the hoops. 20:28:53 <las> jimH: if you haven't send intro yet, please do so ASAP. 20:29:35 <las> danC: intellectual property: goal is to make sure that anything we come up with is usable by entire web community. there are many ways to get there. 20:30:01 <las> could be that we need to get some more formal papers signed for working draft/face to face. 20:30:17 <las> we're a large group, 40+, will need to figure out how to be effective 20:30:45 <las> everything is published, we'll keep developer groups active, anyone who doesn't need to be a member is welcome not to. 20:30:59 <las> JimH: Please say more on what's expected in terms of participation. 20:31:06 <las> DanC: Charter says 1 day/week. 20:31:20 <las> We expect folks in wg to be developing test cases, writing parts of document, ... 20:31:53 <las> If your roll is mostly to keep track of what's going on and report to someone else, you probably don't need to be a member. Members are expected to do substantial technical development. 20:32:15 <las> History section including technical history.... 20:32:42 <las> First item is process history, not technical background (http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process-20010719/) 20:33:05 <las> DanC's job is to keep us all aware of what parts we need to know, but we're welcome to read whole thing. 20:33:51 <dajobe> dajobe has quit 20:33:54 <las> Quick runthrough of obligations that make us mutually effective. 20:34:02 <las> (from process document) 20:34:46 <las> Art of consensus is supplemental, mostly aimed at chairs, less "rules" and more guidelines (member confidential) http://www.w3.org/Guide/ 20:35:12 <las> editors will also need art of consensus, also f2f hosts. 20:35:30 <las> technical background docs 20:35:39 <las> crash course was airport exercise 20:35:46 <las> danc is compiling lessons learned 20:36:40 <las> uris are important technologies....all should read referenced documents 20:37:01 <las> xml is important and the soohoo document is highly recommended 20:37:15 <las> xml namespaces; rdf; rdf schema. 20:37:25 <las> (all of the urls are on the webont home page) 20:37:35 <las> Missing from homepage: Link to rdf validator. 20:38:01 <las> daml/daml+oil not a lot of pointers on the page....there are other things that could be there: daml ontology library, .... 20:38:41 <las> jimH: I don't yet have write permission for the home page. i will try to prioritize. You need some familiarity with all, but may wind up with expertise in some. 20:38:45 <DanC> thanks for scribe-help, Lynn 20:38:56 <las> jimH: everyone will need to know daml/daml+oil 20:39:07 <las> * las is wondering whether danc has stepped down, so she can. 20:40:11 <DanC> JimH: if we recon Nov 2001 as our start date, ... 20:40:17 <las> Apologies to all, but I have a conflict and need to duck out now.... 20:40:35 <DanC> ... three months later is Jan 2002, just after our ftf. 20:40:56 <las> las has quit 20:40:59 <DanC> ... so we'll need to be ready to publish something soon after our ftf; so we'll need to do significant preparation beforehand. 20:41:44 <DanC> ==== 20:41:46 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/charter 20:42:06 <DanC> === 4) Ontology - vision/goals; charter review - Jim Hendler (~20 min) 20:42:54 <Frankh> Frankh has joined #webont 20:43:16 <DanC> JimH: technical scope in the charter is up to date; schedule stuff needs revision, but the technical scope is set. 20:44:28 <DanC> JimH: there was a lot of discussion of what the scope should be; there's a spectrum that goes out to hard research problems; if you've seen TimBL's layer cake, we fit in at the ontology layer. 20:44:34 <DanC> ... note we're not doing rules. 20:44:48 <DanC> [... more summary of the charter ...] 20:45:15 <libby> libby has joined #webont 20:46:58 <DanC> ... we expect that a formal semantics for this language is necessary; we'll either maintiain the DAML+OIL model-theoretic/axiomatic semantics or draft some other formal semantics. 20:47:18 <JosD> TimBL's layer cake http://www.w3.org/2000/Talks/1206-xml2k-tbl/slide10-0.html 20:47:32 <DanC> JimH: some background on DAML+OIL ... 20:48:55 <DanC> ... SHOE had a frames/rules flavor; OIL was based on description-logic stuff... 20:49:37 <DanC> ... mixing in web technologies introduced a few interesting issues... 20:50:25 <DanC> ... "The products of the WebONT group should not presuppose any particular approach to 20:50:26 <DanC> either ontology design or ontology use. In addition, the language must support the 20:50:26 <DanC> development and linking of ontologies together, in a web-like manner. " 20:51:46 <DeborahMcGuinness> axiomatic semantics - http://www.ksl.stanford.edu/people/dlm/daml-semantics/abstract-axiomatic-semantics.html 20:52:13 <DeborahMcGuinness> model theoretic semantics - http://www.daml.org/2001/03/model-theoretic-semantics.html 20:53:32 <DanC> JimH: ... "maximum compatibility with XML and RDF language conventions. " so we'll be working with RDF Core on things like model theory, datatypes, etc. 20:54:30 <DanC> JimH: unlike groups like the "standard upper ontology" group, we don't intend to standardize any particular base of knowledge, but rather a language for expressing ontologies. 20:55:06 <DanC> ... e.g. if someone proposed "this is how time should be represented..." that would be out of scope. 20:56:25 <DanC> ... out of scope: query rules, query language, Universal Web Logics 20:56:49 <DanC> * DanC wonders who's asking 20:56:59 <DanC> NedS: how do you see DAML-S fitting in? 20:57:25 <DanC> JimH: I think we want to support that sort of work, but DAML-S itself is out of scope. 20:57:53 <DanC> NedS: how about as an environment for testing etc? 20:58:36 <DanC> JimH: not sure about "environment"... but yes, we'll be interested in their requirements w.r.t. expressing ontology. 20:59:00 <DanC> OraL: I participate in the DAML-S work, in case we need a connection. 21:00:52 <DanC> JimH: we'll also be keeping track of other W3C working groups as well as other groups like FIPA... 21:01:05 <DanC> JonD: I've been appointed representative from FIPA to here. 21:01:20 <ora> ora has left #webont 21:01:56 <DanC> JimH: note also the European Union has issued a [... scribe missed it.] 21:02:31 <DanC> ... semantic web initiative. 21:02:59 <DanC> [... more charter review...] 21:03:03 <DanC> "To be successful, we expect the Working Group to have approximately 10 to 20 active principal 21:03:03 <DanC> members for its 12-month duration. " 21:03:08 <DanC> JimH: clearly we're past that. 21:03:23 <DanC> JimH: note well: "Any intellectual property essential to implement specifications produced 21:03:23 <DanC> by this Activity must be available on a royalty-free basis." 21:04:05 <DanC> ==== end of item 4 21:04:58 <DanC> FrankvH: it's been suggested to me that we collect idiomatic expressions using an ontology language... 21:05:16 <DeborahMcGuinness> http://www.ksl.stanford.edu/people/dlm/daml/modelingIssues.html 21:05:26 <DeborahMcGuinness> is what i put up to hold daml+oil modeling issues 21:05:28 <DanC> ... use cases, as it were. 21:05:37 <DanC> DanC: yes, let's 21:07:05 <DanC> FrankvH: our charter says start at/near DAML+OIL... (a) how about a crash-course? (b) let's pore over DAML+OIL in detail and see what issues are there. 21:07:37 <DanC> JimH: ideally, we'd have a ftf presentation; unfortunately, we can't wait 'till then... 21:07:48 <DanC> Ian: how about the walkthru? 21:08:22 <DanC> FrankvH: we could present the walkthru by phone... [thinking out loud] 21:08:59 <DanC> IanH: I'm still not clear how we'd define an implementation 21:09:32 <DanC> JeremyC: implementation is my main focus in participation here... at HP, we have an RDF implementation, and we're interesting in moving "up the stack"... 21:10:09 <DanC> ... for example, it would have Java classes that make it straightforward to work with this language... perhaps including a DL [ description-logic ] reasoner. 21:10:13 <mdean> mdean has joined #webont 21:10:19 <mdean> mdean is now known as mdean_ 21:10:21 <DanC> JonD: if we're [@@] 21:13:12 <DanC> DanC: [use cases->testing; RDF Core WG experience: parser testing, entailment tests] 21:13:38 <DanC> DebM: I'm maintaining a "modelling issues" page... http://www.ksl.stanford.edu/people/dlm/daml/modelingIssues.html 21:13:40 <pfps> if there is a question on the call, can we please get an answer before going on to something else? 21:13:59 <DanC> * DanC didn't realize there was a question outstanding 21:14:23 <pfps> what counts as an implementation. 21:14:51 <DanC> did you get cut off? 21:16:05 <JosD> what counts as an implementation? supporting those test cases... 21:16:43 <DanC> PeterPS: I'm still interested to know what counts as an implementation... 21:16:54 <DanC> DanC: note that this group will largely decide that (with some review) 21:17:08 <DanC> PeterPS: so this group will do the "this implementaiton is good enough" work? 21:17:17 <DanC> DanC: yes, mostly. (see also: new QA WG) 21:18:02 <DanC> JimH: it's not necessarily an integrated product... could be a mix of tools and toolkits that counts as an implementation 21:18:44 <DanC> DanC: if we decide that's OK, that'll probably work. But other groups (e.g. CSS) have decided that they want one piece (or 2 pieces) of widely-deployed software that passes all their tests. 21:19:12 <DanC> JeremyC: an important motivation for the implementation requirement is to test that the spec is clear. 21:19:17 <DanC> [... missed other stuff...] 21:21:36 <DanC> DanC/JimH: let's do start collecting use cases: real-world scenarios where "if it doesn't do this, I'm not happy" 21:22:17 <DanC> ====== next meeting 21:22:24 <DanC> week of 22 Nov is not likely. 21:22:45 <DanC> stay tuned for news of next telcon sometime in the week of 26 Nov 21:23:00 <DanC> ====== ADJOURN. 21:23:22 <JosD> * JosD bye 21:23:39 <Ian> Ian has quit -- Dan Connolly, W3C http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
Received on Monday, 12 November 2001 17:13:27 UTC