- From: Noah Mendelsohn <nrm@arcanedomain.com>
- Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2016 11:02:38 -0400
- To: Herbert Van de Sompel <hvdsomp@gmail.com>
- Cc: "www-tag@w3.org" <www-tag@w3.org>
Just to be clear, I said in my initial post that as long as the addin or feature was running at the user's request with clear indication of which content is from 404 pages, I don't think there's a violation of Web arch. My point was that: whether or not deleting pages (I.e. taking URIs that were 200 or 3XX and making them 404) is something we discourage on policy grounds, it's a supported and important part of Web arch. When I make a page 404 I usually have good reasons, and in general I expect users to see the page I return with the 404. I believe that's that the pertinent specifications call for, and should remain the default behavior of user agents. Thank you. Noah On 8/5/2016 4:58 PM, Herbert Van de Sompel wrote: > On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 10:23 AM, Noah Mendelsohn <nrm@arcanedomain.com > <mailto:nrm@arcanedomain.com>> wrote: > > See [1]. > > I thought this might be of some interest to the TAG. Seems to me that > this is OK insofar as the addin is a modification to a user agent, and > is presumably activated only with the user's consent. > > Nonethess, this seems to embody a slightly skewed view of Web > protocols: if I as a URI authority serve a new or updated page, your > browser will do what I intend and show the user that new content. If I > delete a page, the browser will not honor that deletion, but will show > content anyway. This seems to me just a bit of a slippery slope. A 404 > is just as meaningful in Web protocols (no such page) as a 200 IMO. > > > The Memento Extension for Chrome (http://bit.ly/memento-for-chrome) handles > 404 and much more. It covers archived resources in many web archives, see > http://timetravel.mementoweb.org/about/. And its behavior is completely > under control of the user because it works by right-clicking links or pages. > > Right clicking yields a Memento menu with several options: > * Get near current date: Retrieves the most recently archived resource, and > hence can be used to address 404. > * Get near saved date: retrieves an archived resource with archival > datetime closest to the date set in a calendar picker > * Get near memento-datetime: if the page is itself an archived resource in > a web archive, retrieves an archived resource of a linked resource with > archival datetime closest to the date expressed in the page's > Memento-Datetime header. > * Get near page date: retrieves an archived resource with a datetime > closest to the page datetime if it is provided in a machine-readable manner > * Get near link date: retrieves an archived resource with a datetime > closest to date expressed in the data-versiondate link decoration > attribute, as defined in http://robustlinks.mementoweb.org/spec/ > > Note that the Memento protocol is not only for web archives. It can also be > supported by version control systems, wikis, etc. For example, the W3C wiki > and all versions of the W3C specs are accessible using Memento. Using, e.g. > Memento for Chrome, one can seamlessly navigate to the version of a wiki > page or W3C spec as it was at a certain date. And, of course to versions of > linked resources, using right-click as described above. Using the Time > Travel API, see http://timetravel.mementoweb.org/guide/api/, one can use a > URI of this form to get to a version of a W3C spec as it existed at a given > date: > http://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/20031112/https://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/ > > Cheers > > Herbert > > > > > I'm not proposing that the TAG do anything about this or devote > significant time to it right now, just pointing it out in case it's of > interest. > > Thank you. > > Noah > > > [1] > http://gadgets.ndtv.com/apps/news/firefox-will-try-to-show-you-saved-archive-of-a-page-instead-of-404-error-869482 > <http://gadgets.ndtv.com/apps/news/firefox-will-try-to-show-you-saved-archive-of-a-page-instead-of-404-error-869482> > > > > > -- > Herbert Van de Sompel > Digital Library Research & Prototyping > Los Alamos National Laboratory, Research Library > http://public.lanl.gov/herbertv/ > http://orcid.org/0000-0002-0715-6126 > > ==
Received on Tuesday, 9 August 2016 03:05:51 UTC