- From: Tyler Close <tyler.close@gmail.com>
- Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:19:58 -0800
- To: noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com
- Cc: ashok.malhotra@oracle.com, Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>, "Mark S. Miller" <erights@google.com>, Jonathan Rees <jar@creativecommons.org>, John Kemp <john@jkemp.net>, Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>, Tim Berners-Lee <timbl@w3.org>, "www-tag@w3.org" <www-tag@w3.org>, www-tag-request@w3.org
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 8:42 AM, <noah_mendelsohn@us.ibm.com> wrote: > Tyler Close wrote: > >> The bit that covers this point is: >> >> > A user-agent >> > MUST NOT disclose representations or URIs, unless either explicitly >> > instructed to do so by the user or as legitimately directed to by >> > presented content. Since the user may wish to keep this information >> > confidential, the user-agent must not assume it can be revealed to >> > third-parties. > > I'm perhaps getting lost in this long thread, but where does that MUST NOT > text come from? Is it in a normative specification such as an RFC, or is > it a proposal for a rule that might be promulgated? A Google search on > the text turned up nothing but your email. That email provides a first draft of text for two new sections to replace the existing section at: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/metaDataInURI-31#hideforsecurity I provided this text in response to a request on this list by both Dan Connolly and Jonathan Rees. --Tyler > > Thank you. > > Noah > > -------------------------------------- > Noah Mendelsohn > IBM Corporation > One Rogers Street > Cambridge, MA 02142 > 1-617-693-4036 > -------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > Tyler Close <tyler.close@gmail.com> > Sent by: www-tag-request@w3.org > 02/09/2010 04:21 PM > > To: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org> > cc: Tim Berners-Lee <timbl@w3.org>, John Kemp > <john@jkemp.net>, ashok.malhotra@oracle.com, Larry Masinter > <masinter@adobe.com>, Jonathan Rees <jar@creativecommons.org>, > "www-tag@w3.org" <www-tag@w3.org>, "Mark S. Miller" <erights@google.com>, > (bcc: Noah Mendelsohn/Cambridge/IBM) > Subject: Re: ACTION-278 Hiding metadata for security > reasons > > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org> wrote: >> On Mon, 2010-02-08 at 18:10 -0800, Tyler Close wrote: >>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Tim Berners-Lee <timbl@w3.org> wrote: >>> > >>> > On 2010-02 -08, at 07:41, John Kemp wrote: >>> > >>> > Yes, I believe that to be true too - apart from the case where a URI > may end >>> > up being transmitted to another site "automatically" by means of the > Referer >>> > HTTP header. >>> > >>> > >>> > Generalizing, you could argue that client software is written so as > to store >>> > and remember and spread URIs, unlike passwords. So passwords are > stored >>> > hidden away in some way, but browsing history and bookmarks are not. >>> >>> That seems like an enormous logical leap to take based only on the >>> Referer header. >> >> Surely you'd agree there are more information paths than the >> Referer header. I think Noah pointed out phishing detection >> services (though my understanding of those is that it's >> not that the browser sends URIs to the service, but rather >> the service sends lists of URIs to the browser, with >> periodic updates). >> >> You can easily copy and paste the URI of any page you're >> looking at into email etc. >> >> Then there are delicious bookmarklets etc. >> >> Hmm... these are deliberate actions by the user; somewhere >> else in the thread you discounted those, didn't you? >> I'll have to look again. I suspect Tim didn't consider that >> part of your argument. I wonder if it shows up in your draft text >> (of Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:44:16 -0800). I'll have to look again... > > The bit that covers this point is: > >> A user-agent >> MUST NOT disclose representations or URIs, unless either explicitly >> instructed to do so by the user or as legitimately directed to by >> presented content. Since the user may wish to keep this information >> confidential, the user-agent must not assume it can be revealed to >> third-parties. > > Sharing at the direction of the user is great and should be > encouraged. Automatically leaking data against the user's wishes is > not so nice. The Referer header is the only standard place where data > is automatically leaked even when it may be against the wishes of both > the user and the presented content. Fortunately, the web-key pattern > for using the URI fragment can plug this hole. > > Anti-phishing services have many different designs that have each gone > through much evolution. AFAIK, the IE service has always stripped the > query string. The Firefox version initially sent full URLs to a > server, but then switched to sending blacklists to the client. > Internal testing found the online check of the URL to be no more > effective than the blacklisting technique. All of this is second-hand > information. > > --Tyler > > -- > "Waterken News: Capability security on the Web" > http://waterken.sourceforge.net/recent.html > > > > -- "Waterken News: Capability security on the Web" http://waterken.sourceforge.net/recent.html
Received on Wednesday, 10 February 2010 17:20:32 UTC