- From: Jonathan Rees <jar@creativecommons.org>
- Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:42:53 -0400
- To: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
- Cc: "www-tag@w3.org WG" <www-tag@w3.org>
(Dan, I would have replied to you privately, but as this follows on from our telecon, and the TAG does its technical work in public, I thought I would cc the list. I hope I don't create another storm...) On IRC Henry scribed me as saying: JR: A durable solution needs more than a TAG finding - there needs to be a manual or something that helps groups like XRI when they have a need for a naming scheme (and I went on to utter the word "normative".) You then said: not obvious? really? everybody and his brother makes namespaces out of http/dns. It might be worth writing up/down, but LOTS of people figure it out by themselves. I would say it is *empirically* nonobvious. Consider the following examples: XRI - as discussed. DOI - these look like URIs, but aren't, and they certainly aren't http: URIs. Handle system (of which DOI is a part) - similarly. info: URI scheme - nonresolvable URIs. urn:lsid: - similarly. tag: as specified by a W3C team and TAG member - if http: is universal, why wasn't it used here? NCBI database cross-references ("dbxrefs") - why don't they just use http: URIs? http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/299/19/2316 - they crop up every day. These people are not stupid; they would not have passed over an "obvious" solution to unnecessarily invest quite a lot of effort in a different solution. The problem comes from people who don't think a DNS domain name and the server connected to it can survive mergers, acquisitions, rebranding, bankruptcies, carelessness, lawsuits, and other forces of nature. They think (a) that their naming system if http-based would catastrophically fail if DNS failed in one of these ways, and (b) that they can set up a naming system that is more abstract and timeless than is http: so that DNS risks are avoided. In some cases they have the wisdom to see that the best bet for surviving DNS vagaries (or any other kind of protocol calamity) would come from replication (so that names can be looked up in more than one way, just as physical books are found in more than one library), but that is rare. To invent a naming system outside of http: is a natural impulse and it has to be understood on its own terms if we are not to be snobs. There is some precedent to the idea that information such as the meanings of names (http or otherwise) can spread in other ways than DNS/HTTP and would survive DNS-level failures - the URI schemes themselves are one example, as are the many naming systems that were successful prior to the invention of the transistor. For a dignified old-timer such as the periodic table, as well as many newcomers, the idea of being at the mercy of these mysterious upstarts IETF and IANA would really grate. Scientists in particular are anti-authority, and naturally gravitate to systems like LSID that eliminate any reference to anything they don't control. (LSIDs rely on a locally maintained mapping table that can bypass any DNS nonsense that any user comes across. Yes, it doesn't scale, but that's not their concern, it's ours.) You know, I hope, that I fall on the pro-http: side; I don't think adopting http: puts you at anyone's mercy and so far it appears to me that a combination of technical and legal machinations *might* be able to create an http:-based naming scheme satisfying, say, archival needs (probably the most demanding customers). But the first step to recovery is realizing one has a problem, and nobody on either side of the debate seems to be doing this. I recognize that Henry, Noah, and others have put a lot of effort into the issue, and while TAG findings will help, I don't think they will be sufficient to get everyone on board who I would like to have on board. Jonathan
Received on Thursday, 12 June 2008 19:43:31 UTC