- From: Bullard, Claude L (Len) <clbullar@ingr.com>
- Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:52:20 -0500
- To: "'Roy T. Fielding'" <fielding@apache.org>
- Cc: WWW TAG <www-tag@w3.org>
From: Roy T. Fielding [mailto:fielding@apache.org] On Monday, July 8, 2002, at 06:36 AM, Bullard, Claude L (Len) wrote: > Close. Identity is a named value returned > by a process of identification. That's all. >An identifier is a name returned by a process of identification. Yes. >Identity can exist both prior to, and as a side-effect of, >identification. It can in an abstract sense, but the practical use of this is given only when the systems of identification are known. The problem is that leads to the bog of inherent identity which while philosophically fun, isn't that useful. It is somewhat like the requirement for zero: first there is zero, then if there is anything besides zero, there is everything that is. Fun and required for notation, but not an existential quantity. >A well-chosen system of identification provides >an N-to-1 mapping of identifiers to a noun/object/resource/thing >with an identity: a sameness of essential character. Abstractly, given any set, it is unique, and again, the existence of the set predicates a system of measurement or observation. Identity has only abstract value without a known system of identification. >Identity is only a returned value in the sense that it is the set of >essential characteristics over all time that will be observed >to be true for any representative value of the identification >function that is examined at some instance in time. Introduction of the concept of the observer is critical. This is a fundamental issue because identity may need to be established as an observed resource is passed among systems. It is the need to establish that a set member is the unique member given multiple systems or observers that gives value to the abstract concept of identity. >That is also why, in most cases, the "identity" associated with a >URI is defined more by the way people use the URI than by the actual >identification mechanism used by the origin. Yes. It explicitly requires that the identity name be sharable or mappable but this in and of itself will not ensure that an identification process returns a valid identity. It is possible to mislabel by intent or error. (Exchanging badges is a common problem among jailed individuals and even bar coding is insufficient. Identification systems are probabalistic and typically redundant.) >People place semantics >on a given resource according to the consistent set of characteristics >they observe within its representations, often in spite of the >original author's intentions. Hence, Google's ranking algorithm. Yes. The Golem problem. <snipped Webster..> >That sameness of mapping is the desired end-point of identification >AND a characteristic of that being identified. True but insists that the best that can be had is assignment. Then system(s) work to ensure assignment is consistent. In that sense, identity is assigned and maintained by vetted/reliable systems. No free lunch. The clear advantage of the web is the use of tested, known systems of identification. This also means that any system which an owning or authoritative source establishes as reliable for assigning identity can work with a web system to create a resource to be dissemintated to the web. This is dissemination management. Such managers are critical to managing information prior to assignment of a URI (policy managers, in one sense, or simply the business rules for security and access pre-web). If useful, it is possible to indirect the naming system (eg, use of PUBLIC IDs), but the receiving system is not obligated to use these. Thus, there can be utility in differentiating public and system identifiers, but that utility is not of necessity shared. >For example, think of >a clock as a resource. When we perform a GET action (in life or on Web) >on a clock resource, we don't receive back the clock. What we receive >is a representation of the current state of the clock, which has value >to us because we know that the semantics of a clock resource is a >representation of time relative to its reference point (set time) and >the working of its internal mechanisms. That is its sameness -- its >identity as a resource. Accepted with the proviso that sameness is assigned by having a reliable system for assigning identity within the context of a system that observes that value. The clock time might have other characteristics which are not represented by the disseminated representation such as the purpose of obtaining the time value and these are not carried into the representation. Thus the value of time has an identity established by the system that assigns it and that system has no and needs know knowledge of its membership in an earlier representation. >Universal applicability of identity is not necessary on the Web. >If the reference time is the same as that of the viewer, and the >mechanism is believed to be accurate, then performing the GET also >allows the recipient to learn their "current time" by viewing the >representation relative to its age. Such semantics are useful even >if they are not universal. Yes. One can say that the semantics are situated relative to the viewpoint of the observer. That observer may be assigning identity or sharing an identity assigned prior to observation. In the second case, the observer trusts or relies on the validity of that prior system. (At exchange time of a prisoner, the policy enforced either reidentifies, validates, or accepts as valid that the person exchanged is the named individual, thus associating all records with that identifier to the named individual.) >If others want to identify a clock with >universal semantics, then they must restrict the identification >function to map to a UTC clock, or at least a clock that describes >its own reference point such that the viewer can calculate the >difference relative to their own understanding of time. That is >a different resource even if it is the same physical clock. Yes. Share, map, or reassign. In all cases, the local observer requires a policy for identification. The reliability required is contingent on the criticality for being correct within the local policies typically for a resource of some type. >URI are identifiers of resources. GET is a request for a >representation of the current state of the identified resource. >The server does not transfer the resource itself because that's >not what the client requested; the client does not want the >mechanism that implements the resource over all time -- only the >current state of the resource at that instant in time. That's >what allows the client, and the transfer protocol, to be simple. Yes. The prisonser analogy breaks here, of course, not being a digital representation. Transfer of a physical object does require the original, and perhaps the records, but cannot get the prisoner when they are a baby as well as an adult. The state of the records can be used as part of the process of identification of the prisoner, but again, this is where the goal of the system (to move digital representations) and the abstractions of identity based on any unique object in a universe must diverge. However, this seems to be what the RDF community has as a concern, that it does require a universal and unique identifier. >If the mechanism is itself a resource, then the mechanism will >have its own, separate URI, and doing a GET on that URI will >transfer a copy of the mechanism at that instant in time. A GUID is a GUID. >Likewise, we could define separate URI for the clock's big-hand, >little-hand, seconds-hand, moon-dial, PRAM, etc. -- anything that >has identity. Whether or not those other resources are accessible, >and with what methods, is a policy issue for the origin rather than >a limitation of the interface. Again, I have to caveat that the identity is assigned by the system. This is a small quibble but keeps me out of the bog of identity as inherent to an object. Thanks. len
Received on Tuesday, 9 July 2002 09:53:05 UTC