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Minutes June 29 2010 SVGWG telcon

From: Anthony Grasso <anthony.grasso@cisra.canon.com.au>
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 07:34:41 +1000
Message-ID: <4C2A66F1.7040403@cisra.canon.com.au>
To: www-svg@w3.org



       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

29 Jun 2010

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-svg-irc


           [IPcaller], ed, +, anthony_work, tav




      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Last Call Comments
      * [5]Summary of Action Items

    <trackbot> Date: 29 June 2010

    <ed> [6]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/24

       [6] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/24

    <scribe> scribenick: anthony_work

    <scribe> scribe: Anthony

Last Call Comments


    <trackbot> ISSUE-2331 -- <solidColor> references -- raised

    <trackbot> [7]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2331

       [7] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2331

    ED: looks pretty easy

    AG: I can do that one

    <scribe> ACTION: Anthony to Fix solidColor wording raised in
    ISSUE-2331 [recorded in

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2806 - Fix solidColor wording raised in
    ISSUE-2331 [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-07-06].


    <trackbot> ISSUE-2332 -- Comment regarding Text layout -- raised

    <trackbot> [9]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2332

       [9] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2332

    ED: That one is more tricky
    ... need more tests on that one
    ... seems like the section in 10.7 is missleading


      [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jun/0166.html


      [11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jun/0175.html


      [12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jun/0180.html


      [13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Jun/0181.html


      [14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010AprJun/0153.html


      [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010AprJun/0154.html


      [16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010AprJun/0155.html

    ED: There was discussion on the member list as well
    ... I had a look at this awell
    ... I don't think the text-text-06.svg test can pass
    ... according to the section
    ... there are other rules we should test when ligatures are formed
    ... when you have letter space or kerning


      [17] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/text.html#TextLayout

    ED: End of that section is the bullet list

    AG: Do you think it's the bullet points that need fixing

    <ed> "Ligatures only occur when a set of characters which might map
    to a ligature are all in the same text chunk."

    ED: The above text put in an email by Alex D

    <ed> "As mentioned above, ligature formation should not be enabled
    for the glyphs corresponding to characters within different text

    ED: the last bullet point is somewhat similar
    ... we should remove the last one if we remove the first one
    ... The knock on effects of removing those bullet points could be a
    ... Do you want me to investigate what other dependencies there are
    with ligature forming rules
    ... I'll check Tiny if there's any wording
    ... looks the same

    TB: Do you understand the purpose of the rule?

    ED: I guess it depends on how the x and y position rules are suppose
    to work
    ... if it applies to the glyph or the character
    ... I think the x and y are based on characters and not glyphs
    ... so the list of coordinates in x corresponds to the first n
    ... do we have any tests for that particular thing?

    AG: I made complicated one for the rotation values

    ED: Do you have any ligatures in that one?

    AG: No just uses a standard font

    ED: Would be a bit more obvious if we use an Arabic font

    TB: If you're moving characters around you should not use ligatures
    which is what the 1st bullet put in the last 3 is saying
    ... but if you read the 3rd bullet point there's an inconsistency

    ED: That is sort of suggesting that we remove that one as well
    ... One way to move on this is to make some tests
    ... and see what implementations are doing

    TB: I guess I'm trying to see where this would be used

    ED: One problem with the test as it is
    ... the fact it requires SVG fonts
    ... because we can't test Firefox
    ... I think I can take an action to come up with a few new tests

    <scribe> ACTION: Erik to Create some new tests that relate to the
    problems in ISSUE-2332 [recorded in

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2807 - Create some new tests that relate
    to the problems in ISSUE-2332 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-07-06].

    ED: I would suggest waiting for this to see if there are any
    opinions on this
    ... it would be nice to see some more tests with ligature forming


    <trackbot> ISSUE-2333 -- more BackgroundImage/enable-background
    issues -- raised

    <trackbot> [19]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2333

      [19] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2333

    ED: There is some suggested wording
    ... I don't think it's more clear to remove that sentence
    ... Instead of removing the text could add to the wording to make it
    more clear

    <ed> instead of removing "which might require the SVG user agent to

    <ed> buffers as large as the current viewport." we could instead
    make it say "which might require the SVG user agent to allocate

    <ed> buffers as large as or larger than the current viewport."

    ED: Depends on what we think is the right thing to do

    TB: What happens if you create an image outside the viewPort and
    then use it?
    ... I know Inkscape people will create symbols outside the viewport
    ... then expect to use them with the use inside the viewport

    ED: I think it makes sense to be able to generate things outside of
    the viewPort
    ... you have an x,y offset for enable-background=new
    ... so could set negative values for that
    ... doesn't have to be negative just outside the viewPort
    ... I think what the spec is trying to say is if you don't give any
    values then you end up with an allocation the size of the viewPort
    ... wait it's not exactly like that. You give it the size it needs
    ... in that case I agree we should remove that part of the sentence

    RESOLUTION: We will remove the last part of the sentence as

    <scribe> ACTION: Anthony to Remove the last part of the sentence as
    suggested in ISSUE-2333 [recorded in

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2808 - Remove the last part of the
    sentence as suggested in ISSUE-2333 [on Anthony Grasso - due


    <trackbot> ISSUE-2334 -- filter primitive subregion and
    feGaussianBlur, feTile and infinite filter input images -- raised

    <trackbot> [21]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2334

      [21] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2334

    ED: We've discussed this before
    ... it was one of the issues raised by ROC
    ... as Opera implemented it's a hard clipping region
    ... you might not get the edges as you expect, things might extend
    outside the filter primitive subregion
    ... I think he wants to get rid of the clipping part so graphics
    will look the way they should

    AG: I've noticed the same thing with blur filters

    ED: I dunno if we change the meaning of subregion is that useful
    ... to say that the width and height are ignored
    ... as in analysis the filter change to see what areas are affected

    AG: Wouldn't you want to keep the max width and height in the filter

    ED: You may want to do the clip though

    TB: Are there any use cases for this?

    ED: I have used the subregions for cases where the filters are very
    expensive to run
    ... essentially for us this is a rectangular clipping region
    ... this is a change I would be more willing to make in the filters
    ... because it can be useful for very expensive filters

    TB: Let's take the case of the blur
    ... you have two choices
    ... with the area defined
    ... you use only the stuff within the region to calculate the blur
    ... or that it has a region of interest
    ... if you're restricting the output area then you're not going to
    have artefacts along the edge
    ... if you're only concerned about the output you wont have any
    ... that's what I think this is getting at


      [22] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/filters.html#FilterPrimitiveSubRegion

    ED: In the cases I've seen, it's not just the subregions clipping

    <scribe> ACTION: Erik to Investigate ISSUE-2334 and report back
    [recorded in

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2809 - Investigate ISSUE-2334 and report
    back [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-07-06].

    ED: Potentially it's a bigger change than I feel comfortable doing
    for this spec

    TB: I think it's about defining it better

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Anthony to Fix solidColor wording raised in ISSUE-2331
    [recorded in
    [NEW] ACTION: Anthony to Remove the last part of the sentence as
    suggested in ISSUE-2333 [recorded in
    [NEW] ACTION: Erik to Create some new tests that relate to the
    problems in ISSUE-2332 [recorded in
    [NEW] ACTION: Erik to Investigate ISSUE-2334 and report back
    [recorded in

    [End of minutes]

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Found Date: 29 Jun 2010
Guessing minutes URL: [31]http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: anthony erik

      [31] http://www.w3.org/2010/06/29-svg-minutes.html

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