- From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:59:04 +0200
- To: www-svg <www-svg@w3.org>
Hello www-svg,
Minutes at
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-svg-minutes.html
or as text below for bots
SVG Working Group Teleconference
22 Apr 2010
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010AprJun/0031.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
[IPcaller], ed, Shepazu, ChrisL, [Microsoft]
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
chris
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Moving/closing open issues and actions on SVG 1.1F2
2. [6]open 1.1 actions
3. [7]f2f agenda
* [8]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 22 April 2010
<ed>
[9]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/types.html#DataTypeN
umber
[9] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/types.html#DataTypeNumber
ACTION-2730?
<trackbot> ACTION-2730 -- Chris Lilley to fix the broken grammar for
scientific notation in SVG 1.1 and 1.2T -- due 2010-02-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [10]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2730
[10] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2730
[11]http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-svg-minutes.html#ActionSummary
[11] http://www.w3.org/2010/02/11-svg-minutes.html#ActionSummary
<ed> 9e-1
scientific-number: := decimal-number [Ee] integer
[12]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/types.html#DataTypeInteger
[12] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/types.html#DataTypeInteger
<ed> 9e-.4
<scribe> scribe: chris
<scribe> scribenick: chrisl
.6e3
<scribe> ACTION: chris to fix the definition of number to allow
scientific notation in attribute values [recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2765 - Fix the definition of number to
allow scientific notation in attribute values [on Chris Lilley - due
2010-04-29].
implementations certainly allow .3 and i think they allow .3e3 as
well
need to add a test for that syntax for stroke width or something
<ed> "When used in an SVG attribute that is not also a presentation
attribute, a <number> is defined differently, to allow numbers with
large magnitudes to be specified more concisely:"
<ed> should be changed to allow scientific notation in presentation
attributes
that text is new, wrong, and easily fixed
Moving/closing open issues and actions on SVG 1.1F2
<ed>
[14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010AprJun/002
5.html
[14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010AprJun/0025.html
There was some discussion recently on Line caps drawing on zero
length lines
jeff schiller argued it was pointless, dr olaf said it was needed
ISSUE-2259?
<trackbot> ISSUE-2259 -- Inconsistent use of <uri> symbol -- RAISED
<trackbot> [15]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2259
[15] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2259
chris: hard to grep for url( in the tests
erik: some errors in the markup, maybe from master to publish
<ed>
[16]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/masking.html#MaskPr
operty
[16] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/masking.html#MaskProperty
should use func
<ed>
[17]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/masking.html#ClipPa
thProperty
[17] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/masking.html#ClipPathProperty
[18]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/master/masking.html#ClipPat
hProperty
[18] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/master/masking.html#ClipPathProperty
<a href="types.html#DataTypeFuncIRI">&ltfunc;iri></a>
yes needs to be fixed in master
erik: is it only properties that use funcIRI?
<ed> [19]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/propidx.html
(looks broken there too)
[19] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/propidx.html
chris: in 1.1 yes. 1.2t also uses it for navigation
erik: need to check all of these from the property table. not
autogenerated. need to edit idd files?
... will have a look at the scripts in case there is automation
there
ISSUE-2305?
<trackbot> ISSUE-2305 -- Line caps drawing on zero length lines --
RAISED
<trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2305
[20] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2305
ISSUE-2314?
<trackbot> ISSUE-2314 -- Negative values in polygon/polyline points
-- RAISED
<trackbot> [21]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2314
[21] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2314
erik: lets move that to 2.0
doug: jeff would rather adress it now I think.
(we think most implementations allow space to be omitted if the
second argument is negative)
moveto-argument-sequence:
coordinate-pair
| coordinate-pair comma-wsp? lineto-argument-sequence
moveto-argument-sequence:
coordinate-pair
| coordinate-pair comma-wsp? lineto-argument-sequence
coordinate-pair:
coordinate comma-wsp? coordinate
so it should be
coordinate-pair:
coordinate comma-wsp? coordinate | coordinate negativecoordinate
(we do some browser testing on the fly with inconsistent results)
patrick: opera and ie9 both read the negative as a separator
... firefox is not
erik: safari has a green rect
... trying batik ....
... green rect as well
chris: so all but firefox, in summary
i think this is one we should do now
doug: illustrator shows a green box too
<patrickd> <polygon fill="red" transform="translate(100,100)"
<patrickd> points="0,0,100,0,100,-100,0,-100" />
<patrickd> <polygon fill="green" transform="translate(200,200)"
<patrickd> points="0,0,100,0,100-100,0-100" />
<patrickd> <polygon fill="red" transform="translate(300,300)"
<patrickd> points="0,0,100,0,100,-100,0,-100" />
<patrickd> <polygon fill="green" transform="translate(400,400)"
<patrickd> points="0,0,100,0,100-100,0-100" />
<shepazu> <svg xmlns="[22]http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0
-100 100 100">
[22] http://www.w3.org/2000/svg
<shepazu> <polygon fill="red" points="0,0,100,0,100,-100,0,-100" />
<shepazu> <polygon fill="green" points="0,0,100,0,100-100,0-100" />
<shepazu> </svg>
<scribe> ACTION: chris to edit path bnf for Negative values in
polygon/polyline points [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2766 - Edit path bnf for Negative values
in polygon/polyline points [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-04-29].
<scribe> ACTION: chris to test for path bnf for Negative values in
polygon/polyline points [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2767 - Test for path bnf for Negative
values in polygon/polyline points [on Chris Lilley - due
2010-04-29].
ISSUE-2317?
<trackbot> ISSUE-2317 -- Give different result for feGaussianBlur
stdDeviation=0 -- RAISED
<trackbot> [25]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2317
[25] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2317
erik: made some changes to a local copy of svg filters, not
completed yet, will split the equation for x and y
... as dr hoffman suggested
chris: we try to avoid having zero be a singularity
erik: ok will do in filters, then backport to 1.1 if it works ok and
there is time
action-2189?
<trackbot> ACTION-2189 -- Erik Dahlström to clarify that
stdDeviation="25,0" for feGaussianBlur still means that the filter
must be rendered -- due 2008-12-31 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [26]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2189
[26] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2189
erik: added some tests for this in filter module so can add those
... but no implementation handles it, they all give no output for
zero
chris: can opera change to add that?
erik: already done, ha!
<ed>
[27]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/filters/test/svg/filters-gauss-201
.svg
[27] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/modules/filters/test/svg/filters-gauss-201.svg
ISSUE-2318?
<trackbot> ISSUE-2318 -- How should text-decorations be rendered wrt
boundingbox units (gradients, filters)? -- RAISED
<trackbot> [28]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2318
[28] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2318
erik: more of a clarification
chris: a test with a small text string like "..." would show this
with strikethrough and underline
erik: or an svg font with a huge underline offset
doug: better to do in 2.0 as we attack decorated bounding box then
chris: yes
erik: can test with getBbox
doug: depends what it takes into account. eg not stroke width
erik: its the glyphbox
chris: it all depends on whether the strike and underline are
considered part of the glyph or are considered extra graphics drawn
along with the glyph
erik: text decoration not implemented in firefox
doug: text support in svg in firefox needs work
... jwatt aware of the issue
chris: agree, move to 2.0
erik: updating issue now
open 1.1 actions
ACTION-2077?
<trackbot> ACTION-2077 -- Erik Dahlström to test implementations for
percentage values in clipPath, etc. -- due 2008-07-03 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [29]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2077
[29] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2077
erik: mre exploratory, change how clippath percent units are
resolved, more of a 2.0 thing
s/mire/more/
moved to 2.0
<ed> [30]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1
[30] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1
erik: hmm the issue is already 2.0 but it shows in tracker as a 1.1
action, odd
chris (some tracker bugs if issues and actions are on different
products)
erik: want a deadline for completing these actions
chris: one week
erik: ok, one week. if not done, mark as 2.0
patrick: if they don't get attention then we can move thwem and
worry later if they still are relevant
... cvs access still not working
ACTION-2590?
<trackbot> ACTION-2590 -- Cameron McCormack to ensure javadocs get
published when 1.1F2 is published -- due 2009-06-09 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [31]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2590
[31] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2590
erik: not sure if that has been done
doug: mail heycam and ask
erik: will do
action erik to mail heycam about ACTION-2590
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2768 - Mail heycam about ACTION-2590 [on
Erik Dahlström - due 2010-04-29].
ACTION-2644?
<trackbot> ACTION-2644 -- Chris Lilley to update the 1.1 DTD under
/Graphics/SVG when publishing 1.1SE -- due 2009-08-12 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [32]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2644
[32] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2644
chris: do we want a dtd? we are guiding people away from them
... we would need to update the DTD for all changes
erik: ned to harvest already for default values
chris: much clearer to say "if not specified" than to have a dtd
snippet
<scribe> ACTION: erik check the DTD for defaulted values and put
lacuna wording in the spec for each one [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2769 - Check the DTD for defaulted values
and put lacuna wording in the spec for each one [on Erik Dahlström -
due 2010-04-29].
chris: did we add or remove attributes or elements?
erik: something about font or font face elements.
... not sure
... check the errata page
chris; ok if we already made dtd changes from errata we need to
republish that DTD
<ed> [34]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml
[34] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml
[35]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#font_modu
le_add_fontface
[35] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/errata.xml#font_module_add_fontface
ok so only one dtd change, easy to do
erik: it was correct in the dtd not in the spec snippet
... so we can copy the old DTD in fact
chris: if its identical no need for an update
close ACTION-2644
<trackbot> ACTION-2644 Update the 1.1 DTD under /Graphics/SVG when
publishing 1.1SE closed
ACTION-2743?
<trackbot> ACTION-2743 -- Chris Lilley to make a harness version of
the 1.1SE errata tests and link to imp report -- due 2010-03-22 --
OPEN
<trackbot> [36]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2743
[36] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2743
chris: if there are unapproved tests then i will agenda+ them for
monday
erik: is it better to change the fx taskforce telcon now or have the
call and decisde on the call a new time?
doug: better for me to have it the week after (www2101)
... better to change the time now ad postpone the call
erik: ok
f2f agenda
<ed>
[37]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Brussels%2C_Belgium_F2F#A
genda
[37] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Brussels%2C_Belgium_F2F#Agenda
erik: day planning is usuall done in the first session so its not
fixed yet
patrick: wondering if we want to spend a full day on second edition
work?
erik: if its done before then not, otherwise its a way to get it
done
patrick: what is this about a conformance report?
<patrickd> These tests, and the corresponding implementation reports
are intended not to test implementations
(explains the difference between implementation testing and
conformance certification)
<patrickd>
[38]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Test_Suite_Overview
[38] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Test_Suite_Overview
These tests, and the corresponding implementation reports are
intended not to certify implementations as conforming, but rather
the interoperable implementability of the specification itself.
the wonders of wiki
[39]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/implementation-repor
t.html
[39] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/errata/implementation-report.html
patrick: the 1.1 test suite is seen by the public as a conformance
suite. and there are a lot of animation tetss, which we don't pass
doug: this is a fundamental part of the process. we have to make
implementation reports
chris: all the browsers started with low scores. this is not
surprising
doug: yes we do need more tests
erik: we can do more testing of interactions
doug: also svg+html tets are needed - good to test, but outside our
current scope
erik: want to see that in the charter for the new work in svg 2.0
doug: very bad for morale to hold up 1.1se while the test suite gets
bigger
patrick: happy to contribute more tests as long as they are reviewed
doug: its time consuming work. 1.2T spent a year to do that
erik: we need a new automated test harness really
doug: can call this out more explicitly
... goot to have microsoft join the SVG IG to help with torture
tests
patrick: location for the extra two days are now confirmed
adjourned
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: chris to edit path bnf for Negative values in
polygon/polyline points [recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: chris to fix the definition of number to allow
scientific notation in attribute values [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: chris to test for path bnf for Negative values in
polygon/polyline points [recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: erik check the DTD for defaulted values and put lacuna
wording in the spec for each one [recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2010/04/22-svg-minutes.html#action04]
--
Chris Lilley mailto:chris@w3.org
Technical Director, Interaction Domain
W3C Graphics Activity Lead
Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
Received on Thursday, 22 April 2010 16:59:47 UTC