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Re: How to provide titles and descriptions in a second language?

From: Jonathan Chetwynd <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 15:09:31 +0100
Cc: "Robin Berjon" <robin@berjon.com>, "Dr. Olaf Hoffmann" <Dr.O.Hoffmann@gmx.de>, www-svg@w3.org
Message-Id: <9A94E7F4-6597-4F60-B5CA-18BD8C5356C8@btinternet.com>
To: Jeff Schiller <codedread@gmail.com>

my accessibility concerns are far removed from this issue, though  
naturally I welcome your suggestions.

as expressed better elsewhere, I believe there is a structural fault  
within W3C whereby ordinary naive users are excluded from the process.

furthermore and of similar significance is the need to create  
technologies that facilitate the development of simple and easy to use  
authoring tools that enable these ordinary naive users to publish to  
the web.

I have been assured that the W3C management team are considering how  
the fulfillment of their stated objectives are being measured and  

One intermediate goal for the SVG Working and Interest Groups would be  
the creation of an SVG microformat.

I am willing to assist further in respect of these issues.

However as Doug has already suggested I may not be a suitable candidate.


Jonathan Chetwynd


+44 (0) 20 7978 1764

On 1 Jul 2008, at 13:34, Jeff Schiller wrote:

> Jonathan,
> Opera displays the title as a tooltip when hovering.  I consider  
> Opera one of the major UAs.
> My question was really about how to define a clear test/fail  
> criteria.  Can we properly phrase the pass criteria in a sentence or  
> two?
> The spec http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/struct.html#DescriptionAndTitleElements 
>  says that the title and description are not displayed when the SVG  
> is displayed on visual media and then says browsers MAY display the  
> title under certain circumstances but it is not clear that they  
> MUST.  I think we all agree that they SHOULD.
> Do we state that hovered tooltips are the mandatory way browsers  
> must display the <title>?  Or maybe something more general like:
> "The user must be able to cause the browser to reveal the contents  
> of the <title> element in some way.  One popular (and recommended)  
> means is by hovering the mouse pointer over the element such that  
> the <title> contents are displayed as a tooltip."
> Jonathan, maybe you and I can start expanding on this at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/IG/wiki/Accessibility_Activity 
>  ?
> Regards,
> Jeff
> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 2:08 AM, Jonathan Chetwynd <j.chetwynd@btinternet.com 
> > wrote:
> Jeff asked me off list how this might be tested...
> I set up a simple example: http://www.openicon.org/icon-ark/mulberry/fruit.svg
> not one of the major UA 'figured out' which title to present.
> assuming my test is suitable, perhaps this is evidence enough of the  
> need for examples in the test suite?
> using os x and the system language English
> Safari presents no title information afaik
> Opera and Mozilla present the first title in any list, in this  
> case:   <title xml:lang="fr">les fruits</title>
> changing the system language had no effect on edited versions, with  
> English first.
> regards
> Jonathan Chetwynd
> j.chetwynd@btinternet.com
> http://www.openicon.org/
> +44 (0) 20 7978 1764
> Le 30 Jun 2008 à 20:09, Robin Berjon a écrit :
>> On Jun 30, 2008, at 19:44 , Dr. Olaf Hoffmann wrote:
>>> as I discoverd now, the elements title and desc do not have
>>> the attribute systemLanguage in SVG 1.1 and SVGT1.2.
>>> How to provide (or to switch to) a second language for
>>> title and description without repeating the parent element
>>> of those elements. How to switch the document title and
>>> description?
>>> Maybe it is useful to add this attribute to title and desc
>>> in SVG 1.2, because often those elements contain the
>>> major part of text in SVG documents and it might be
>>> useful for accessibility reasons to provide those information
>>> in more than one language.
>> Nothing keeps you from providing title and desc in more than one  
>> language: simply use the xml:lang attribute to indicate which  
>> language they're in. Since they do not have any effect on rendering  
>> there is no need to switch them, just include several, each with  
>> their own language. It's up to the UA what happens with them (e.g.  
>> showing up as a tooltip or being read out) so it ought to figure  
>> out which one it wants to use.
>> -- 
>> Robin Berjon - http://berjon.com/

Received on Wednesday, 2 July 2008 14:10:24 UTC

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