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Re: CSS property for visually hiding an element

From: Oliver Joseph Ash <oliverjash@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 03 May 2017 09:49:32 +0000
Message-ID: <CADBHO9EnVGfs97XencAVNvey7FCAeE1u6YSNrTmJcmGjkbX0rw@mail.gmail.com>
To: François REMY <francois.remy.dev@outlook.com>, Patrick Dark <www-style.at.w3.org@patrick.dark.name>
Cc: "David Woolley <forums@david-woolley.me.uk>, Oliver Joseph Ash <oliverjash@gmail.com>, www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>
The consensus seems to be that this is a sensible idea. How do I push this
forward? I'm happy to champion it, but I don't know where to start.

On Wed, 5 Apr 2017 at 22:11 François REMY <francois.remy.dev@outlook.com>
wrote:

> > François REMY 於 4/4/2017 12:17 PM 寫道:
> > > Aural stylesheets are not used for screen readers, and screen still
> applies.
> > > As the name implies, a screen reader reads the screen.
> >
> > That isn't the implication I get out of CSS2.2¹ and CSS1 Speech²
>
> There isn't any browser that supports css-speech, nor the aural/speech
> media types. To support css-speech, a browser would have to come with its
> own built-in screen reader, which isn't at all what blind people desire at
> this point.
>
> This specification is highly inspirational and to be honest only practical
> for ePub audiobooks (and maybe some cortana/echo/in-car scenarios). All
> mentions of blind people in these specs are inspirational but do not
> correspond to any reality faced by blind people when browsing the web. What
> blind people need is very different from what a sighted person in a car or
> listening to an amazon echo would need, and those use cases cannot be
> easily reconciled.
>
> A screen reader cannot "get" an aural stylesheet because it does not get
> to deal with css at all. Can you imagine the hell it would be for screen
> readers if they had to implement custom logic for every application
> framework in a different way, especially when those frameworks can be
> contained in each other (a flash applet in an html page displayed in a xaml
> browser chrome)? It is just not practical.
>
> Screen readers for the most part rely on a standardized model which all
> application frameworks in an operating system have to implement (and which
> is partially interfaced on the web through aria and built-in html
> semantics). This ui-automation model isn't sound-based in any operating
> system; in all honestly that is not a problem blind people even feel the
> need to solve right now.
>
> Given aural stylesheets are about converting a document to a sound+markers
> space, they are therefore totally inapplicable to screen readers.
>
Received on Wednesday, 3 May 2017 09:50:16 UTC

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