W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > October 2016

Re: [css-text] copying text-transform'd text

From: Johannes Wilm <johannes@fiduswriter.org>
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2016 18:44:36 +0200
Message-ID: <CABkgm-QkiM8UW_pJi+Ein2OVqpUaSQCB7-jFcox2R52uR0cJTA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gmail.com>
Cc: Dave Cramer <dauwhe@gmail.com>, fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>, Brad Kemper <brad.kemper@gmail.com>, "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>
On today's call the direction application (changing the html structure
rather than keeping it in the styles so that <span
style="text-transform:uppercase;">Hello</span> turns into
<span>HELLO</span>) in the case of html was mentioned.

There is a bug for this on Chrome that has been open since 2013:
crbug.com/325231 .

In my personal opinion, this is the more serious issue, because as long as
there is an HTML-version of the clipboard with the original capitalization
information, pasting applications can always use the HTML version to create
a custom plaintext version if they want a plaintext version that is
different from what the browser delivers.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:38 PM, Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gmail.com> wrote:

> Replied to github but this seems to be the place to reply, sorry.
> I collected major issues we're aware of, from out bug database and user
> forum. Given the Greg's request, the list isn't limited to text-transform.
> 1. Most of feedback are about preserving format in the way users expect
> when copy/pasting formatted text, either from browser or to browser.
> 2. There are cases where we don't handle spaces (collapse too much or to
> little) and new lines (fail to generate new lines for end of blocks etc.)
> in the way users expect. One example is crbug.com/318925.
> 3. There are cases where selecting linked text is hard or impossible. One
> example is crbug.com/446391.
> The text-transform didn't come up in either places.
> /koji
> 2016-10-20 22:03 GMT+09:00 Dave Cramer <dauwhe@gmail.com>:
>> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Apr 2, 2015, at 11:41, fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I think we probably need to get the browsers to agree on this
>> >> issue and put the required behavior in the spec, so authors know
>> >> what to expect.
>> >>
>> >> Personally I don't think the copied text should be affected by
>> >> the transform: if that's a key part of the text's presentation,
>> >> then it should be done in the source. There's a lot of cases
>> >> where it wouldn't make sense to copy out the style. E.g. putting
>> >> the first word (or phrase) of an article is a stylistic choice
>> >> that shouldn't come out in the plaintext copy.
>> >
>> > I disagree on both the desired behavior and standardizing this behavior.
>> >
>> > I personally prefer What You See Is What You Copy. How it’s written in
>> the source file doesn’t matter much to me when I’m viewing a web site.
>> Especially if we were to introduce regex based text-transform in future,
>> it’s even more confusing.
>> >
>> > And I think plain-textizing belongs to browser UX. If you don’t like a
>> behavior in your favorite browser, filing a bug to the browser makes more
>> sense to me.
>> Per the Working Group call yesterday, here are some browser bugs
>> around this issue:
>> Mozilla: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35148
>> Webkit (old): https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3429
>> Webkit (new):  https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=43202
>> There doesn't seem to be consensus, but it's only been sixteen years.
>> Dave

Johannes Wilm
Fidus Writer
Received on Wednesday, 26 October 2016 16:45:06 UTC

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