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Re: [css-containment] Splitting the "sizing" part from "layout" containment

From: Levi Weintraub <leviw@chromium.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 13:26:25 -0700
Message-ID: <CAMLeo+H6AoH94NPFeY7mO46wS17fwWgVuOVXPeDh2co9r5kPqA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ojan Vafai <ojan@chromium.org>
Cc: Florian Rivoal <florian@rivoal.net>, Paul Lewis <paul@aerotwist.com>, "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>, www-style list <www-style@w3.org>
On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 12:06 PM, Ojan Vafai <ojan@chromium.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 2:29 AM Florian Rivoal <florian@rivoal.net> wrote:
>
>> Splitting sizing from layout makes sense to me.
>>
>> As for one property vs two, I think the key question is, as it often is
>> when we run into this debate, do these two things benefit from the ability
>> to cascade separately.
>>
>> If you're using them on (web) components, I don't think there's a
>> benefit. Which type of containing might be different on different
>> components, but for each component you'll want to decide on all 4 aspects
>> of containment.
>>
>> On the other hand, if you do want to use the containments other than
>> sizing in a heavy handed way all across your page, and separately add
>> sizing containment without changing the other aspects of containment, then
>> it makes sense.
>>
>> Would you? I can see adding all-but-sizing all over the place, and
>> specifying some-specific-combo-which-may-include-sizing on components in
>> the same page. But would you do all-but-sizing all over the place, and ADD
>> sizing without wanting to change whatever the rest was in specific parts?
>> If the answer's yes, then two properties are better, but what's the use
>> case?
>>
>
> This seems extremely rare to me. I think the 99.99% use case is to use one
> of strict or strict-compatible. Hence my thinking that we should have a
> single property.
>
>
>>  - Florian
>>
>> On Mar 19, 2016, at 09:50, Ojan Vafai <ojan@chromium.org> wrote:
>>
>> There are two important use-cases here:
>> 1. A simple way to get strong containment without needing to understand
>> the intricacies of the platform and of each vendor's implementation. This
>> is "style layout paint size".
>> 2. A simple way to get soft containment that can be used broadly (e.g.
>> via "* { contain: strict }"). This is "style layout paint".
>>
>> #1 is an extension of #2 and I think it should read that way. Also, it's
>> really critical that #1 be very simple. It's just so draconian that it
>> can't be used as the 90% use-case. But it's really critical for that other
>> 10%.
>>
>> It seems to me that we just have a naming problem here, but that we can
>> still have a single property. I think "strict" is a good name for #1. We
>> just need to make a name for #2 that sounds like the pre-cursor to #1.
>>
>> Here's a few proposals:
>> a) strictish
>> b) strictable
>> c) strict-candidate
>> d) pre-strict
>>
>> How about e) content? I'm not a huge fan of implying strict when we're
not strict.

FWIW, I agree that we should have a property for both strict and
whatever-we-call-strict-without-size. I think Ojan is right that one or the
other will work well for the majority of use cases.


>
>> I prefer (c), but would be happier with any of these than splitting this
>> up into two properties.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 11:24 AM Paul Lewis <paul@aerotwist.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the clarification! SGTM.
>>>
>>> Seems like a good addition irrespective of containment. Mainly I'm happy
>>> if strict doesn't require explicit widths and heights. If there's a way to
>>> ensure that independently then yay.
>>>
>>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2016, 18:18 Tab Atkins Jr., <jackalmage@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Paul Lewis <paul@aerotwist.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > If we go with a separate property then that restores the clarity of
>>>> contain,
>>>> > which is good.
>>>> >
>>>> > The concern I would have then is what this other property looks like.
>>>> I
>>>> > guess it comes like flex properties, which only apply when the parent
>>>> is
>>>> > display: flex?
>>>> >
>>>> > So I guess, yeah, if a developer sets this additional property along
>>>> with
>>>> > width and height (does it need both?) then there's an extra constraint
>>>> > applied, but for the main case "strict-ish" just got promoted to
>>>> "strict"
>>>> > and we make this sizing property, in conjunction with the other, the
>>>> "super
>>>> > strict" option? :)
>>>>
>>>> Nah, the idea is that you'd have something like "height-foo: auto |
>>>> pretend-you-are-empty;" (all names subject to change, obviously).  It
>>>> would be completely disconnected from 'contain', and it applies to all
>>>> elements at all times.  If you set it to "pretend-you-are-empty", then
>>>> you need to either provide a value for 'height' as well, or your
>>>> element will break in an obvious way, as it immediately collapses to
>>>> zero height.  Similar for 'width'.
>>>>
>>>> ~TJ
>>>>
>>>
>>
Received on Wednesday, 23 March 2016 20:02:43 UTC

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