[CSSWG] Minutes Telecon 2014-10-01

Publish New WD of Regions

  - RESOLVED: Publish new WD for Regions


  - Everyone was reminded to come up with topics for TPAC and to
      register (if they haven't already).

Overwriting an important style

  - RESOLVED: Change the behavior of setProperty() according to last
      week’s proposal following Rossen’s approval

Empty string value <media-query> or not

  - RESOLVED: Allow empty string in <media-query>

animation-fill-mode and running/complicated animations

  - RESOLVED: animation-fill-mode applies whenever it's updated

CSSOM-view behavior of matchMedia

  - zcorpan will reply to the e-mail to elaborate, but the group
      believes that the iframes issue is addressed by HTML.

Review documents moved to note or gutted note

  - The group was okay will all of Bert's notes except it was
      suggested to move DOMMatrix into being an old version of
      Geometry Interfaces instead of making it a note.


  Rossen Atanassov
  Tab Atkins
  David Baron
  Bert Bos
  Adenilson Cavalcanti
  Tantek Çelik (IRC only)
  Dave Cramer
  Alex Critchfield
  Elika Etemad
  Sylvain Galineau
  Daniel Glazman
  Dael Jackson
  Peter Linss
  Shinyu Murakami
  Simon Pieters
  Anton Prowse
  Florian Rivoal
  Simon Sapin
  Dirk Schulze
  Alan Stearns
  Greg Whitworth

  Chris Lilley
  Mike Miller
  Lea Verou

  Scribe: dael

  glazou: Let's start
  glazou: Any extra items?
  astearns: I'd like to publish another WD of Regions.
  glazou: We can do that as the first item.
  glazou: Any others?

Publish New WD of Regions

  <astearns> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-regions/#changes_from_Feb_18_2014
  astearns: The only thing changed is the introduction. Here's the
            change list (above).
  astearns: It's been over 6 months since last publication so I'd
            like to publish again under the new process.
  Rossen: I thought we were doing that at the last F2F for multiple
          drafts including Regions.
  astearns: I hadn't seen that in minutes so I assumed we were out
            of time after I left.
  Rossen: In the meantime, we can ask for objections in case we
          didn't resolve at the F2F.
  * Rossen didn't see Regions on the minutes either...

  <Bert> (Intro looks good, so I'm OK with publishing.)
  <dauwhe> very nice intro!
  <astearns> dauwhe Bert thanks

  glazou: Any objections?

  RESOLVED: Publish new WD for Regions


  glazou: It's not far away and we haven't started collecting items.
  glazou: I don't think we have a wiki page even and so we need that
          and to collect agenda items. Anything else about TPAC?

  dauwhe: dpub does want a joint meeting with CSS. It's tricky with
          them being on the Thursday and Friday. Is that a
          conversation for the administrative list?
  glazou: Yes, probably.
  fantasai: Question is do we want to meet with them on Monday or
            Tuesday or do we send a delegation to one of their
  dauwhe: I proposed they'd meet us on Monday, but they want
          Thursday or Friday.

  glazou: So what amount of time do they need and to discuss what?
  dauwhe: Box tree API and pagination issue, I think. Probably an
          hour at least.
  glazou: Okay.
  florian: Is Wednesday dedicated to certain topics or can we use it
           for this?
  TabAtkins: Wednesday isn't a meeting day.
  florian: Perhaps as a part of the un-conference.

  dauwhe: I think for this topic there are people we'd need but not
          everyone. I also don't know everyone's plans.
  fantasai: Why don't you make a list of the people you need and we
            can look at schedules?

  glazou: Also about TPAC, we got a message that 2015 TPAC will be
          on the last week of October and the location is Sapporo in

  <Bert> Don't forget to register! Price goes up on Oct 8. (Most of
         us have, but maybe a handful hasn't:
         https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2014/ )

  <dbaron> I created a stub page for

Overwriting an important style

  Rossen: We collected a bunch of data and tried to look through the
  Rossen: What we see currently...Out of almost 600 million hits we
          found with all kinds of important rules, very few of them
          would match the pattern, like something in the 100 range
          which suggests a tiny ratio.
  Rossen: Of the content we could scan...
  Rossen: I think the total number of pages was a few million.
  Rossen: I can send you a link to a page that didn't meet the
          criteria (below), but we couldn't figure out the behavior,
          though the content suggested the pattern would occur.
  <Rossen> http://api.solvemedia.com/papi/_puzzle.js
  Rossen: Inside that JS file they're over-riding.
  Rossen: So, given the low count of content that might be
          exhibiting that pattern, I think we're okay to change the
          behavior and monitor content issues.
  florian: As I said, Firefox has that behavior and no compatibility
           issue has been reported.
  Rossen: I'm okay with the behavior as proposed.
  glazou: Any objections to the change?

  RESOLVED: Change the behavior of setProperty() according to last
            week’s proposal following Rossen’s approval

  glazou: I suggest we make some blog posts on w3c.org and post this
          change on your personal blogs to make sure those few
          people affected know about it.

Empty string value <media-query> or not

  <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Sep/0427.html
  florian: We have the behavior change in MQ 4 which isn't
           intentional so I think it's okay to revet. MQ couldn't do
           an empty string but it now can.
  florian: Having the MQ be the empty string used to not be okay,
           but the current spec suggests it evaluates as true, so we
           should revert.

  TabAtkins: I think I agree, I think I accidentally put a question
             mark in there. But you can't have a comma with nothing
             around it because that's disallowed in the grammar
             right now. They must be omitted.
  florian: But if they're separating the empty string it's not
           considered un-ambiguous?
  TabAtkins: It's not. You must omit a comma if it's not separating
             two things.
  florian: So the current spec is correct but is odd.
  TabAtkins: We should remove the question mark.
  fantasai: I think it's best if we are explicit rather than relying
            on unconventional implicit behavior in a spec somewhere
  TabAtkins: I'm stressing we cannot have commas with nothing
             between them.
  zcorpan: There's no grammar for MQ, It's an algorithm
  TabAtkins: That's right because it has to handle rejection.

  florian: So I'd like two resolutions. Remove the question and make
           it explicit that the MQ list can be an empty list.
  TabAtkins: That should be def by the algorithm.
  <zcorpan> http://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-4/#mq-list
            "An empty media query list evaluates to true."
  florian: It's implicitly defined by the algorithm. There's nothing
           that forbids you from having an empty list, but it
           doesn't explicitly say it can be empty.
  TabAtkins: I'm fine with a note that it can be an empty list.

  florian: Does anyone like the behavior?
  zcorpan: There is some behavior, but I don't mind changing that.
  florian: The place were we say how to evaluate it says you can
           evaluate to true, but there is no explicit mention in the
           section about how to parse it.

  RESOLVED: Allow empty string in <media-query>

animation-fill-mode and running/complicated animations

  <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Mar/0445.html
  sylvaing: Basic question is what happens when it's updated by
  sylvaing: We answered part of the question when you update
            animation property while it's running.
  sylvaing: The other question was let's say you have...your
            animation is running through a delay and you have a
            backwards fill and then you update your fill mode, we
            never really said anything about if fill mode is
            affected. I assume it should be but I wanted to check.
  <dbaron> I agree it should just update.
  TabAtkins: Yeah, that should be updated and the have appropriate
             effect. You would stop backwards filling and not have
             an affect until the delay run out.
  sylvaing: I couldn't think of a situation it would be awkward.
  sylvaing: No objections?

  RESOLVED: animation-fill-mode applies whenever it's updated

CSSOM-view behavior of matchMedia

  <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Sep/0354.html
  glazou: This came from the mailing list from Boris, it wasn't
          discussed or replied to so I picked it up for the call.
  zcorpan: The order of events is something I plan to define. It
           will hook into requestAnimationFrame machinery when
           there's something for it to hook to.
  zcorpan: The iframes is defined in HTML that they should have a
           0 by 0 viewport.
  <zcorpan> "If a Document is in a nested browsing context, it is
            expected to be positioned and sized to fit inside the
            content box of its browsing context container. If a
            browsing context is not being rendered, it is expected
            to have a viewport with zero width and zero height."
  <zcorpan> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/rendering.html#the-page

  TabAtkins: Is there any other queries that matter here? I don't
             think so. I think the HTML statement answers the second

  dbaron: You said you were planning to hook into
          requestAnimationFrame machinery?
  zcorpan: Yes. That's what we want to do for recite events.
  dbaron: Something needs to account for flushing as well. If
          something causes a layout flush it could have an effect
          outside of requestAnimationFrame.
  zcorpan: Good point.

  glazou: So zcorpan do you want to take an action to reply to
  <zcorpan> action spieters to reply to Boris' e-mail
  * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
  <trackbot> Created ACTION-655 - Reply to boris' e-mail [on Simon
             Pieters - due 2014-10-08].

Review documents moved to note or gutted note

  glazou: Bert sent a message. Anything to say about it?
  krit: One comment about the DOMmatrix to make it as an earlier
        version of Geometry Interfaces.

  glazou: Anything else to say about the documents themselves or the
  TabAtkins: I haven't fully reviewed, but expect it'll be fine.
  glazou: These are the docs we decided to put aside.

  glazou: That's all I have for today. Is there anything else to
          discuss? If not, everyone can have an extra 30 minutes for
          their day.
  Many: 30 more minutes is great!
  glazou: Thank you very much!

Received on Wednesday, 1 October 2014 23:05:19 UTC