- From: Lars Knudsen <larsgk@gmail.com>
- Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:53:10 +0100
- To: Marcos Caceres <w3c@marcosc.com>, www-style@w3.org
- Cc: public-sysapps@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CA+jkkcj-rEstdT1vW7jbtgx03gFUz-Jd5sJQpzjgnFQwaPwfNg@mail.gmail.com>
Hi Marcos, On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Marcos Caceres <w3c@marcosc.com> wrote: > > > On Thursday, 21 February 2013 at 07:23, Jonas Sicking wrote: > > > On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 9:59 PM, Lars Knudsen <larsgk@gmail.com (mailto: > larsgk@gmail.com)> wrote: > > > On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 2:24 AM, Jonas Sicking <jonas@sicking.cc(mailto: > jonas@sicking.cc)> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Lars Knudsen <larsgk@gmail.com(mailto: > larsgk@gmail.com)> wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > ( related proposal: > > > > > > > > > > > http://mounirlamouri.github.com/sysapps/proposals/RunTime-Security/Overview.html > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > I think it's good that you are working on a spec to encapsulate > what is > > > > > needed to make it somewhat easy to do generic app descriptors for > web > > > > > apps - > > > > > as opposed to fiddling with all kinds of Apple (or other) specific > tags > > > > > and > > > > > tricks to make webapps behave the same across platforms. However, > I am > > > > > not > > > > > too fond of the spec proposal I found on github, where the > screen_size > > > > > options seem limited to minimum width/height. > > > > > > > > > > What I need as an app developer, is the viewport meta tag "done > right", > > > > > where I can say, e.g. "give me a screen of 1920 x 1080 (virtual) > pixels" > > > > > and > > > > > the platform would figure out how to best match it within the > device > > > > > currently displaying it. Of course, the actual pixel count could be > > > > > made > > > > > available to the application, but to make it very simple for 99% > cases, > > > > > where you just need a virtual fixed size game/app area - and be > sure > > > > > it's > > > > > fixed - why not just provide an easy way of doing so? Currently, it > > > > > seems > > > > > that - apart from preventing auto orientation change, iOS is the > only > > > > > platform providing this (through viewport tricks, event stealing, > etc.) > > > > > and > > > > > IE is getting there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't this result in black top/bottom or left/right edges on most > > > > screens? Isn't this fairly undesirable in most cases? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please see my postscript that seemed to have been deleted from the > reply: > > > "PS Yes, I know there will be differences in aspect ratio - but this > > > *could* be fixed either by just enforcing one of the sizes (width or > height) > > > or by simply having empty black space around." > > > > > > > > Sure, but I think my question still stands. Is there really a time > > when the black frame behavior is desirable? > > > > I don't really understand how the "enforce one of the sizes" would > > work. Can you explain? > > > > > > Also, I wonder if this wouldn't be better solved using CSS somehow. > > > > I.e. to be able to say that you want a window to be scaled to a > > > > certain aspect ratio. In particular, this seems like something that > > > > web page authors would want access to, which means that sticking this > > > > feature in an application manifest isn't a good solution. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well - that is true. However, none of the browser vendors seem to have > made > > > their browsers ready > > > for simple apps and games with this little thing just yet. > > > > > > > > I don't think that browsers are more willing to implement a features > > such as this just because it's proposed as part of the manifest as > > opposed to as part of CSS. My experience is that browser developers > > are more willing to implement well designed features, even if they are > > a bit more work to implement. > > > > > Of course, there might be a larger push for it > > > as the whole industry now seems to converge on HTML(5) for > RealApps(TM). > > > > Maybe the @viewport CSS rule could help… > http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-device-adapt/#the-atviewport-rule > > Random thought (and possibly a crappy hack…but): I'm wondering if one > could use something like the full screen API to achieve what you are > describing? > https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/DOM/Using_fullscreen_mode > > You could fullscreen an HTML element based on a virtual viewport size, > then adjust an element inside that to fit. Didn't try it, but you never > know; might work. > I will try to do some more experimentation. However, it seems odd to me that this should (still) be so hard. Including www-style to see if someone there can tell me if it's already possible, a good idea for simplifying development ... or just me being silly ;) To quote the relevant part from the thread: ***** Like it's possible via tricks on iPad now - by giving a list of min/max/initial scales = 1 and width="my desired virtual pixel width" in the viewport meta tag. Combining this with some touch/mouse event stealing surface will *almost* get you what you need: A plain and simple: "give me a game surface to put objects on with this width (and width/height ratio) - and don't try to think you know what else I want" For avg joe developers, it would be nice with a simple: viewport="width=640, height=480, fit-to-screen=true, keep-aspect=true, user-scalable=no, panning=off" (could be made even more simple) ****** br Lars > > -- > Marcos Caceres > > http://datadriven.com.au > > >
Received on Friday, 22 February 2013 15:53:47 UTC