- From: CE Whitehead <cewcathar@hotmail.com>
- Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 23:11:57 -0500
- To: <aharon@google.com>, <www-style@w3.org>, <public-i18n-bidi@w3.org>
Hi, Aharon (I don't know if I am supposed to respond to this or not but here goes): list-style-position:outside-parent makes good sense to me and does solve the problems with lists. It would be nice in html 5 I think but I am not really involved with that so don't want to make that decision. Best, --C. E. Whitehead cewcathar@hotmail.com ________________________________ > From: aharon@google.com > Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 06:28:14 -0800 > To: www-style@w3.org; public-i18n-bidi@w3.org > Subject: Re: [css3 lists] list-style-direction > > Some fine-tuning (thanks to Anton Prowse to pointing out the problem - > we have to talk about the (item) element's parent element, as opposed > to "the list element"): > > list-style-position:outside-parent would work like > list-style-position:outside, except > that list-style-position:outside-parent will apply the direction of the > parent element of the (list item) element to the marker box; [all the > rest the same] > > Aharon > > On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 4:12 AM, Aharon (Vladimir) Lanin >> wrote: > Discussion at the CSS WG meeting at TPAC 2010 > (http://www.w3.org/2010/11/01-CSS-irc.html) resulted in a modified > proposal, to which I subscribe: > > A new value for list-style-position: outside-parent (in addition to the > existing inside|outside). > > list-style-position:outside-parent would work like > list-style-position:outside, except > that list-style-position:outside-parent will apply the list element's > direction to the marker box; list-style-position:outside would, on the > other hand, continue to use the item element's direction for the marker > box. The marker box direction affects both the bidirectional ordering > of the marker text and the location of the marker box, which is on the > "start" side of its direction. > > It was also proposed that for list-style-position:outside-parent list > items, the list item's text-align will apply only to the list item's > content, not to its marker box, which will behave as if it had > text-align:start. This is the current behavior > for list-style-position:outside in WebKit. list-style-position:outside > would, on the other hand, now be specified to apply the item's > text-align to both the marker box and the item content, as is currently > the case in IE, Opera and Firefox. This reason this was proposed is > that with list items having text-align:start by default, the markers of > lists containing opposite-direction items do not line up, even > with ist-style-position:outside-parent, unless the WebKit approach is > used. > > However, this reason would no longer apply if the default stylesheet > could specify: li {list-style-position:outside-parent; text-align: > match-parent}. For lists where all items have the same direction as the > parent, such a change in the default stylesheet would have no visible > effect at all, which is good. For lists where some items have the > opposite direction, the default effect would be as follows (view in > fixed-space font to get the intended effect): > > 1. ltr text. 2. longer ltr > text. 3. RTL TEXT. > 1. ltr text. > 2. longer ltr text. > 3. .TXET LTR > > 1. ltr text. 2. longer ltr > text. 3. RTL TEXT. > 1. ltr text. > 2. longer ltr text. > 3. .TXET LTR > > 1. ltr text. 2. longer ltr > text. 3. RTL TEXT. > 1. ltr text. > 2. longer ltr text. > 3. .TXET LTR > > Is such a change to the default stylesheet ok by you? > > If so, do we need to get it into HTML5? > > Aharon > > On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Aharon (Vladimir) Lanin >> wrote: > The following is a proposal for some bidi-related changes to CSS3 > Lists. > > 1. An additional list-related property: list-style-direction. > > The property would determine the direction of the list marker, when it > is a separate box, i.e. when list-item-position is "outside". The > effects of the marker's direction include: > > * The location of the marker box, since it is on the "start" side > of list-style-direction. For example, with list-item-direction:ltr, the > marker box is to the left of the list item. > * The bidirectional ordering of the marker text. For example, > with list-item-direction:rtl, the marker text "1." is displayed > visually as ".1". > > list-style-direction would take one of the following values: > > * ltr > * rtl > * match-list > * match-item > > For backward compatibility with CSS2, the default value would be match-item. > > Note, however, that since the marker box is displayed in the margin, > and since a list by default only creates a margin on its start > side, match-item works poorly for list items whose direction is > opposite to the list's direction. This is the reason why currently, > most or all of the marker is invisible for such items in all major > browsers. Furthermore, it turns out that in many or most use cases (at > least in Hebrew, Arabic, and Persian), the preferred look is to have > all markers appear on the same side, even though different items have > different direction. Thus, we would really want the default to be > match-list, but can not make it so because of CSS2 behavior. > > As a workaround, we therefore propose that the default style sheet > would specify list-item-direction:match-list for all ol and ul > elements. > > 2. Currently, there is no interoperability regarding whether text-align > applies to the list item marker when list-item-position is "outside". > IE, Firefox and Opera keep the marker with the item, i.e. apply the > alignment to the marker. WebKit, on the other hand, applies the > alignment only to the item, but keeps the marker location constant > regardless of text-align. As a result, there is a big difference > between the way
Received on Monday, 15 November 2010 04:12:38 UTC