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Re: [css3-text-layout] New editor's draft - margin-before/after/start/end etc.

From: Andrew Fedoniouk <news@terrainformatica.com>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 20:06:48 -0700
Message-ID: <08C3299BB84E4AF8AB4AE18327C6550F@terra3>
To: "Zack Weinberg" <zweinberg@mozilla.com>
Cc: HåkonWiumLie <howcome@opera.com>, <www-style@w3.org>

From: "Zack Weinberg" <zweinberg@mozilla.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 6:33 PM
To: "Andrew Fedoniouk" <news@terrainformatica.com>
Cc: "HåkonWiumLie" <howcome@opera.com>; <www-style@w3.org>
Subject: Re: [css3-text-layout] New editor's draft - 
margin-before/after/start/end etc.

> "Andrew Fedoniouk" <news@terrainformatica.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Yeah, that's the answer to the question I was asking.  Your proposal
>> > completely ignores what the Unicode bidi algorithm computes, and
>> > looks only at explicit attributes on HTML elements.
>> It does not.  @dir has nothing with bidi algorithm per se.
> Ok.  Then, based on what Murata-san says in
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010May/0668.html
> I am convinced that your proposal does not solve the problem.

What is *the* problem that my proposal does not solve?

> Specifically, style sheets must cope with _on the fly user override_ of
> writing direction; thus any approach depending on document annotations
> cannot do the right thing in all cases.  We need a way for style sheets
> to control formatting based on the way individual runs of text are
> actually being drawn, regardless of why they are being drawn that way.

Sorry, I do not understand.

Are you saying that you know precise algorithm that allows
you to detect display:ltr and display:ttb runs of say Chinese characters?

Or is this only about LTR/RTL?

If "yes" then what would be such split on the phrase:
"I live in Sheraton hotel" where only "Sheraton" is written
in Latin? And what exactly you want to do with the result?

> The HTML authoring guidelines are moot for the same reason.
>> > ::ltr p ::first-line { padding-left: 2em }
>> > ::rtl p ::first-line { padding-right: 2em }
>> I am not sure I understand the purpose of your declaration above.
>> You want to make some paragraphs to use different paddings in the
>> same section of a document?
> This would make the first-line of a paragraph be indented from the
> _left_ margin if it is left-to-right text, and from the _right_ margin
> if it is right-to-left text.  In practice of course one would use
> text-indent to get that effect; it is only an example.

Still not clear.

Selector like "::rtl p" tells me that you have
<p>aleph bet alpha beta</p> placed in some virtual container that
gets somehow RTL directionality automatically? How exactly?
And why it is not the <p> element itself? Something like:

p:contains-only-rtl { padding-right: 2em }
p:contains-only-ltr { padding-left: 2em }

or even this :)

p:contains-mostly-rtl { padding-right: 1.5em; padding-left: 0.5em }
p:contains-mostly-ltr { padding-right: 0.5em; padding-left: 1.5em }


Andrew Fedoniouk

Received on Sunday, 30 May 2010 03:07:21 UTC

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