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Re: Frameset/Frame Specification Amendment (HTML+CSS)

From: Brad Kemper <brad.kemper@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:59:27 -0700
Message-Id: <6ED1A99E-C268-4454-A9E4-85B1A9A4ADDE@gmail.com>
To: "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>
Cc: Axel Dahmen <brille1@hotmail.com>, "www-style@w3.org" <www-style@w3.org>

On Mar 26, 2010, at 10:56 AM, "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>  

> On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 7:25 AM, Axel Dahmen <brille1@hotmail.com>  
> wrote:
>> Frames are a great way for splitting a document into several  
>> distinct areas
>> and for providing a dynamic, resizable, easy-to-use head/navigation/ 
>> content
>> view.
> I will greatly disagree here.  Frames have a number of important and
> crippling problems

I think we all understand that there is much fear and loathing of  
frames, even amongst those who would use AJAX in the same way,  
experiencing the same sort of problems.

But in spite of the viseral knee-jerk reactions some people have  
against them, the question wasn't about whether or not we liked them.  
They are valid HTML, and it is appropriate for us to discuss and  
possibly address problems they have with styling and presentation, and  
the current limitations of CSS to deal with those issues.

This should not be a discussion about the merits of frames as a design  
element, or debating the pros and cons of the dogma of the anti-frames  
religion. Even deprecated items can typically receive CSS styling.  
Frames ARE still in use, and COULD be made more compatible with using  
CSS for their current non-CSS presentational aspects  Your distate for  
their use is no reason to try to shut down discussion about their  

> Again, an HTML issue.  If HTML is dictating presentation, and browsers
> are paying attention to it, then we can't do anything about it.

Sure we can, even if we don't change the syntax of the HTML. We could  
simply explain the HTML presentation as being due to a UA stylesheet  
that describes that presentation, and allow it to be overridden.  
That's certainly been done before, many times. 
Received on Friday, 26 March 2010 19:00:12 UTC

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