W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > www-style@w3.org > June 2010

Re: [css3-text-layout] New editor's draft - margin-before/after/start/end etc.

From: John Daggett <jdaggett@mozilla.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 20:18:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: MURAKAMI Shinyu <murakami@antenna.co.jp>
Cc: "Tab Atkins Jr." <jackalmage@gmail.com>, Boris Zbarsky <bzbarsky@mit.edu>, www-style list <www-style@w3.org>, Hakon Wium Lie <howcome@opera.com>
Message-ID: <1894671140.392721.1276053500806.JavaMail.root@cm-mail03.mozilla.org>
Shinyu Murakami wrote:

> In your example, the vertical version, writing-mode: tb-rl is
> specified on the div element.
>   div { writing-mode: tb-rl; }
> and the root element's writing-mode is lr-tb by default. It means
> the entire document is horizontal writing and contains a vertical
> writing block inside.
> The principal writing mode of the document should be specified on
> the root element.
>   html { writing-mode: tb-rl; }
> I put a modified vertical version (writing-mode: tb-rl on the root element):
> http://nadita.com/murakami/tests/wagahaiwanekodearu-vert-1.html
> Please test this with IE8. The viewport is positioned at the 
> beginning of the text (the right side) and can scroll to 
> the left (with mouse wheel).
> I think this behaviour is natural and should be written in
> the CSS3 Text Layout spec.

Wow, that's funky.  Not only the scroll-wheel behavior but
Page-down/Page-up/Home/End keys are also treated as logical commands,
they map to Page-Left/Page-Right/Far Right/Far Left.

So this behavior only exists on the root element?  What happens for
pages with mixtures of lr-tb and tb-rl elements?

What about the interaction of controls and writing-mode?  Are select
lists to be displayed vertically for example?  The spec now lists '??'
under 'Applies to' for block-flow.

Fully supporting vertical writing modes appears to affect a very wide
portion of CSS.  I strongly suggest that rather than simply add features
to CSS3 Text Layout we first consider the potential impact that vertical
text modes will have on the whole of CSS.

> I don't think all CSS properties need logical version. It should be
> limited to basic properties indispensable to express the document's
> structural elements and for readability. For example indents
> (margin-start and -end) are important for blockquotes.

In which case you end up introducing lots of inconsistencies, I don't
think there's any clear line between "basic" and non-basic properties.
An author using 'border-before' will have to define separate styles
for 'border-radius'.  Seems very confusing for authors.
Received on Wednesday, 9 June 2010 03:18:54 UTC

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