- From: Ambrose LI <ambrose.li@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:38:10 -0500
- To: "Belov, Charles" <Charles.Belov@sfmta.com>
- Cc: www-style@w3.org
2010/12/21 Belov, Charles <Charles.Belov@sfmta.com>: > It would seem that underlines used as proper punctuation marks would > better be an underline character, rather than the underline of a > space character. Please forgive my ignorance of Chinese but > I thought a character looking like two adjacent sides of a square > was used to set off quotations in Chinese. (I do sometimes need to > post Chinese content, although it is rare for it to have a quotation.) Two punctuation marks are affected, and the confusion is probably caused by the fact that they don't act like English punctuation marks. (These are probably closest to emphasis marks, which seem to be much better understood, in terms of behaviour.) Perhaps some explanation should be given here. The first is what I call the proper name mark (專名號 in Chinese). This looks exactly the same as an underline, and is used to mark personal names, geographical names, and the like. (The proper name is underlined, and in case two adjacent proper names appear, both are underlined but the underlines are visually separate without affecting the spacing between the Chinese characters.) In this regard it is like capitalization in English. I would say it is still in active but not common use, and it is still being taught in schools. If we don't use it, we can either use quotation marks (which is very rare, since it could be read as derogatory, just like English) or we can leave it out (which is quite common). The second is what I call the citation mark (書名號 in Chinese). This looks like a wavy underline, and is used to mark titles of books, literary works, and music, etc. (The title is wavy-underlined, and in case two adjacent titles appear, both are wavy-underlined but the underlines are, again, visually separate without affecting the spacing between the Chinese characters.) So it serves the same purpose as italicization in print and the CITE element in HTML. This is still in common use, but because of deficiencies in various software, full-width guillemets are normally used instead. Options for the wavy underline are full-width guillemets or quotation marks (which AFAIK is rare). For certain uses it can be omitted, but normally it is not. There are a couple of problems with the default underline position with respect to these two punctuation marks: 1. The underlines are often, if not always, too close to the baseline, causing the underline to intersect with the Chinese characters. So "pixel positioning" would be a good idea since it would be a way to correct this typographical error. 2. If the proper name or title of literary work involves non-CJK characters (such as one or more English letters), the underlining would break into two or three parts. This is undesirable as it is semantically wrong. Quotation marks, as you point out, look like two parts of a square and are separate characters. In horizontal writing, there is an option to use English-style quotation marks, and such usage is mandatory for simplified Chinese in horizontal writing mode. -- cheers, -ambrose does anyone know how to fix Snow Leopard? it broke input method switching and is causing many typing mistakes and is very annoying
Received on Tuesday, 21 December 2010 23:38:38 UTC