- From: Brad Kemper <brad.kemper@gmail.com>
- Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:45:49 -0700
- To: www-style list <www-style@w3.org>
Sending to public list, instead of just WG list... Begin forwarded message: > Begin forwarded message: > >> Hyatt: ... SVG shadows >> ChrisL: That's how I implemented these >> Brad: Once we have SVG shadows, then anything we do for border-image >> just becomes redundant >> Hyatt: For box-shadow, my concern is what the author expects. >> Hyatt: I think there's really only two options: either shadow the >> border-image or suppress it >> Hyatt: I don't see what the problem is with doing shadows on border- >> image >> Hyatt: Is it just that we can't come to agreement on how it works? >> fantasai: no, that's not the problem >> Brad: We could add switches to controll what the shadow gets >> applied to >> fantasai: we can add switches later >> Hyatt: If you really want a separate border-shadow then we can add >> that >> and copy the box-shadow syntax >> ... >> Hyatt: If we have a box-shadow, then it tries to do this filled >> shadow >> effect where it's drawn outside the box >> Hyatt: A border-shadow effect would shadow whatever's drawn for the >> border >> Peter: Does border-shadow really change the shape of the box? >> Hyatt: People expect it to >> Hyatt: It looks like they change the shape of the box, but it's >> kinda fake >> Bert: I don't want to have a non-continuous border change the shape >> of the >> box. I still want the box to be rectangular. >> Hyatt: Most of our use of border-image is to round things >> Brad: I think using border-image for interesting dotted patterns >> will be >> as interesting as using it for changing the shape of the box >> Hyatt: It's going to be used for a lot of things. Any case where the >> built-in borders aren't good enough >> ChrisL: So you're saying people want this immediately ... ? >> Hyatt: Feature requests we've gotten: >> Hyatt: 1. do border-shadow, which is just a property like box-shadow >> and text-shadow that would exactly shadow the border >> drawing >> Hyatt: 2. A full-blown shadow property, that would shadow everything >> drawn inside the element >> Hyatt: 3. Wanting to shadow pieces of SVG. >> ChrisL: You can do that already with the filter property >> ChrisL: The latest draft is adding some syntactic sugar for common >> effects >> ChrisL: I believe that's already implemented in WebKit, actually >> ChrisL: If we go ahead and do a border-shadow property, then I'd like >> the box-shadow property to be only affected by the box, not >> by the border-image >> ChrisL: You'll only get a rectangular shadow >> ChrisL: It's not what people want. It's just clear and simple. >> Hyatt: The argument for suppressing the box-shadow instead of just >> drawing a rectangle >> Hyatt: Is that if the image don't load you show the border with a >> shadow >> Hyatt: I'm fine with just rendering the rectangular shadow >> Hyatt: I think that's what we currently do >> Hyatt: I think it's an important point that border-image doesn't >> change >> the shape of the box > > In thinking this over after the discussion, I am willing to relax my > stance a little. Even though I am in favor of having a box-shadow > fallback for when images don't load (or may still be loading, in the > case of progressive rendering), I am appreciating the argument that > we could just say that box shadows only apply to box shapes (that > is, either rectangular or rounded-corner rects), and not to other > apparent shapes layered on top of that, such as border-styles and > border-images. > > So, I propose [we just] add a simple note about that to border- > shadow, to finish that topic off in the backgrounds and borders > module and help advance its status. Then, separately, we should > explore the following... > > 1. A separate CSS drop-shadow property (alpha-based), with syntax > similar to box-shadow, and a keyword to say how much it applies to: > e.g. that can be applied to just borders and border-images, or the > entire background-clip area of the element (including borders and > border-images, if background-clip:border-box), or to everything > including contents (that is, border-box and border-images, plus > children inherit it). > > 2. A way to specify fallbacks for no-image-loaded (or no-image- > loaded-yet) situations. I rather like Andrew F.'s solution using > pseudo-classes, but perhaps a media query would work as well.
Received on Wednesday, 26 August 2009 15:46:36 UTC