- From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 19:03:02 +0200
- To: www-style@w3.org
Hello www-style,
Minutes of the 8 April CSS WG meeting are at
http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-css-minutes.html
and below as text.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: bert make the changes in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0619.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-css-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: daniel to respond to yves saying why ident is not an issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-css-minutes.html#action01]
Summary of resolutions
resolved: publish and update to css 2.1 asap
resolved: accept berts proposal on gramar
resolved: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0538.html is a non-issue
RESOLVED: duplicate malformed declarations rule for malformed statements (statements rule to come after declarations rule in the spec)
css wg telcon
08 Apr 2009
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2009AprJun/0020.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-css-irc
Attendees
Present
dsinger, glazou, David_Baron, sylvaing, plinss, ChrisL,
Melinda_Grant, fantasai, Bert, Howcome, SteveZ
Regrets
Chair
daniel
Scribe
chris
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]agenda - member or public
2. [6]CSS2.1 Issue followup
3. [7]Issues with CSS2.1 Grammar
4. [8]Fallback color on background-image
5. [9]Fallback on border-image
6. [10]next f2f in sophia
* [11]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<glazou> hi MikeSmith
<MikeSmith> glazou: konban wa
<fantasai> dsinger_: type /nick dsinger
<fantasai> dsinger_: type /nick dsinger into your IRC client
<fantasai> dsinger_: then Zakim will recognize you
<dsinger_> Can we discuss the sophia agenda briefly?
<dsinger_> T u
<glazou> np
<glazou> I only forgot to add it on the agenda but that was on the
list
<glazou> ok emilyw
<dsinger_> Chris asks why agenda is member only but minutes are
public
<dsinger_> Admin is member only, tech is public
<scribe> scribenick: chrisl
<scribe> scribe: chris
agenda - member or public
dg: chris suggests sending agenda to the public list
bb: why? no advantage
dd: agenda almost always public. any member -specific stuff is rare
and can be discussed separately
<dsinger_> I think the current arr. Is odd but right
pl: can post the agenda minus the dial in numbers to the public list
db: publ;ic may have useful feedback
<fantasai> dg: no, not dial in numbers, just topics
mg: if agenda is early enough
bb: don't want to do this, writing for the public takes to much
time. unecessary
sg: specific example?
bb: want to hide spelling mistakes
<fantasai> pl: how about we send the agenda to the members mailing
list and send a synopsis to the public mailing list
<dsinger_> Has any public asked?
pl: how about a synopsis of agenda sent to public, plus fuller
agenda to member list
cl: dave - no
<dsinger_> They see the minutes
db: how would they ask for it without knowing it exists
dg: minor issue, no consensus to move to public agenda.
<dsinger_> It is work to fix, and dpes not seem worth it
dg: could take more time to sort through public feedback before
meeting
cl: ok, thanks for considering it
<fantasai> dg: we stay as we are for the time being
<glazou>
[12]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2009JanMar/0212.h
tml
[12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2009JanMar/0212.html
CSS2.1 Issue followup
[13]http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-24
[13] http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-24
Everyone had an action to read Bert's email and prepare for
discussion
ee: made comments in email
<dbaron> the " apple][ {color: red}" is actually a lot more
complicated than Bert said
<fantasai> no, actually, last week's minutes
<fantasai> fantasai: shouldn't this have been sent to the public
mailing list?
ee: wasn't berts comment supposed to be sent to public list?
db: contents of email seem reasonable but i don't see a proposal
... two examples look a bit complex
<dbaron> complex in that they're more complicated than stated
because of ()/[]/{}-matching
bb: my preference is to not do anything
... this is as far as I got
ee: it doesn't adress selectors. want it to cover at-rules and
declaration blocks
<glazou> szilles: ?
ee: idea that you match brackets and quotes is clear enough without
specific microparsong rules
... there is an error in the spec as we changed the wording and
introduced a new issue
... proposal was that the part on malformed declarations was changed
to stateents
<fantasai>
[14]http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#parsing-errors
[14] http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#parsing-errors
<fantasai> There's a rule about malformed declarations
ee: should be "statements and declarations"
<fantasai> yea
bb: not sure you always know if you are in a statement or not
ee: in one if you are not in a declaration
... @rule is always a statement
... if you are in a decl skip to end of decl, else skip to end of
that statement
bb: no statements inside an @media
<fantasai> bb: they look like statements, but they aren't according
to the grammar
bb: hence the complex email, there are different types of @rules.
@media and @page are different
... take last example in my email
... you are at the top level then you see an invalid string. have
not started the first statement
... have to assume you are unless you are clearly not eg a comment
... would like it to be as simple as elika says but doubt it is that
simple
ee: only unclear case is inside @page in css3
... so suggest dupllicating the malfored rule for stateents, then
add more detail in css3 paged media
dg: good compromise. is it acceptable?
bb: imples an error inside an @rule causes whole @rule to be
ignored?
ee: depends on where it occurs
<dbaron> I think in the long run we should have a single grammar
that has "unexpected content" productions that match pretty much
anything and which correspond to the pieces that get ignored
ee: not if the @rulke has declarations.
... trap points are stzatements and declarations
<glazou> dbaron: yes
sg: what are the chars that are matched?
{ ( "
<fantasai> ee: brackets and quotes
<glazou> ChrisL: that's sylvain galineau
<sylvaing> yeah so content:"}" does not cause havoc
<dbaron> also [
<fantasai> and '
<fantasai> :)
<sylvaing> ()/{}/[]/""/''
dg: any objections to elika's proposal
(none heard)
bb: ok lets try it
<fantasai> RESOLVED: duplicate malformed declarations rule for
malformed statements (statements rule to come after declarations
rule in the spec)
resolution: duplicate section on malformed declarations for
malformed stateents
db: I think in the long run we should have a single grammar that has
"unexpected content" productions that match pretty much anything and
which correspond to the pieces that get ignored
... make the production that covers all things that get ignored
... this is a rather big project
dg: I agree in principle, on desirability and timeline
<glazou>
[15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0299.html
[15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0299.html
Issues with CSS2.1 Grammar
[16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0538.html
[16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0538.html
dg: should a class be a name instead of an ident?
db: why?
ee: think he missed the point odf the section
dg: and why to escape the first digit
ee: comparing css1 and css2, think he is confused. can no longer do
this
dg: agree, not an issue
resolved: non-issue
<dbaron> somebody should respond :-)
<glazou>
[17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0538.html
[17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0538.html
<scribe> ACTION: daniel to respond to yves saying why ident is not
an issue [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-css-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-138 - Respond to yves saying why ident is
not an issue [on Daniel Glazman - due 2009-04-15].
<sylvaing>
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0538.html
[19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0538.html
bb: yes, the S token is ambiguous
... ok to change the grammar
dg: so remove s* from end of import?
bb: yes
bert's response
[20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0619.html
[20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0619.html
<Bert>
[21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0619.html
[21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0619.html
pl: agree
bb: yves says its easier if no non terminals can produce an empty
string
... can accept that
dg: any objection?
(non heard)
dg: choices in berts email seem harmless
... and obvious
resolved: accept berts proposal on gramar
<scribe> ACTION: bert make the changes in
[22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0619.html
[recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-css-minutes.html#action02]
[22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0619.html
<trackbot> Created ACTION-139 - Make the changes in
[24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0619.html
[on Bert Bos - due 2009-04-15].
[24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0619.html
sg: do we have any outstanding 2.1 issues before publication?
dg: no, so lets publish and update as soon as possible
ee: bert and I will check all the edits have been made
db: so i put an issue on the end of the list
... font-weight bolder and lighter, want to backport from css3 to
css 2.1
<dbaron> issue 111
cl: is it simple to specify?
db: yes but no proposed text yet
bb: prefer to see actual text
(several) yes
db: fine to publish but there is more stuff to do
ee: boris has some pendingf issues on anonymous tales still to come
resolved: publish and update to css 2.1 asap
<fantasai> Bert, we should schedule a day to coordinate on 2.1
Fallback color on background-image
[25]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0536.html
[25] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0536.html
ee: at f2f we decided I would propose text so we don't need to
discuss this now
<glazou>
[26]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Mar/0389.html
[26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Mar/0389.html
Fallback on border-image
<glazou>
[27]http://www.bradclicks.com/cssplay/border-image/Thinking_Outside_
The_Box.html
[27] http://www.bradclicks.com/cssplay/border-image/Thinking_Outside_The_Box.html
dg: wh can summarise this?
ee: several open issues from discussions with dave hyatt, brad
kempers proposal adresses all of them
... look at his pictures
... if image fails to load, layout jumps around. also layout changes
depending on border-image support
... so want it to not affect border-width
... example with a jutting corner
... make sa lot of sense
... also says designers want an image where layout aligns with a
given point of the image, wants to allow some overflow
... minor issues to discuss on mailing list, precise syntax, but we
should adopt this
hyatt and roc in favour
dg: demoed boder image, people were scared by the nuber of arguments
and this adds four more. its hard to remember
ee: maybe a shorthand with individual properties like
border-image-offset
... more understandable at expense of adding more properties
dg: public wants it to be simpler and easier to understand. need to
look at very carefully
... seems to meet web designer's wishes
bb: what if the corerr image is wider than the box itself?
ee: probably it gets clipped
db: there is some rule to explain how to handle this
ee: needs to be worked out in detsail
dg: any objection to moving forward on this proposal
hl: not studied in detail yet
dg: so, do we adopt this direction and develop it further?
... main issue is relayout which is a big issue
ee: hyatt raised this also
dg: does make sense
... any disagreement?
(none heard)
dg: several options, functional notation or shorthand
<fantasai> sg: I like the proposal, but usability of the syntax is a
concern
resolved: adopt this direction to avoid relayout but make the syntax
easier to understand
next f2f in sophia
<fantasai> [28]http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/sophia-2009
[28] http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/sophia-2009
dg: need agenda items to help people with travel planning
ee: pleae add topics to the wiki
ds: no specific ones to suggest but might be difficult getting apple
dev there as right before out dev conference
<Bert> Currently known topics: test suites, and grid/matric/template
layouts
sz: last day of japan f2f should have a list of topics
ee: will add them
ds: three day meeting all day?
dg: yes
... any other items?
hl: think ing on column break vs page break. any strong opinions?
ee: melinda and i discussing, no opinions yet
hl: want to bring back the column-break-{before, after, inside}
rather than having this in the page properties
sz: then you have an interaction problem
hl: yes, needs to be defined
<melinda> I'm kinda leaning the same way... maybe with a shorthand
to combine them...???
hl: yes, shorthand could be good. will propose text
adjourned
<Bert> Fantasai, for the CSS 2.1 issues, any day is fine starting
next Tuesday.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: bert make the changes in
[29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0619.html
[recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-css-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: daniel to respond to yves saying why ident is not an
issue [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-css-minutes.html#action01]
[29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Feb/0619.html
[End of minutes]
--
Chris Lilley mailto:chris@w3.org
Technical Director, Interaction Domain
W3C Graphics Activity Lead
Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
Received on Wednesday, 8 April 2009 17:03:16 UTC