Re: @media and browsers conditional statments

From: "Alan Gresley" <>
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 11:22 AM
To: "Simetrical" <>
Cc: "CSS 3 W3C Group" <>
Subject: Re: @media and browsers conditional statments

> Simetrical wrote:
>>> We have arrived at this point in time without the
>>> need of browser sniffing and spoofing into CSS so I don't think that we 
>>> have
>>> to go down that road now.
>> I am far from the most experienced CSS author here.  Probably you have
>> much more experience than I do.  But my mind boggles at the claim that
>> we don't use browser sniffing in CSS.  How many complicated
>> stylesheets that support IE6 don't use bunches of * html hacks?  Even
>> if we optimistically assume that no browser as bad as IE6 will come
>> along anytime soon, people have given examples of where they've had to
>> hack around more standards-compliant browsers too (e.g., Firefox not
>> supporting inline-block until Fx3).
> I am very aware of IE hacks for special style rules. Using the precedent 
> of hacking around a *buggy IE* is not the same as the *few CSS bugs* in 
> other browsers. When dealing with the versions of IE garbage CSS is often 
> required to get around some weird IE bug behavior. If IE doesn't respond 
> to garbage CSS then we just have to avoid particular CSS and layouts.

Sorry, but they are not *few CSS bugs*.
They are more CSS bugs than you think. And we doesn't talk here about
unknown comportement of browsers in some cases that the spec doesn't
clearly explain. Each browser have a very great number of problems and
if we doesn't have @media, we will use JavaScript or hacks to do the same
thing bug it's more complicated and less secure.

And it's not always possible to detect a if there's a bug via JavaScript or 
    a) because we need enormous javascript file for nothing important
    b) because there's no way to control the layout of the document via JS
    c) because you must perfectly understand the problem and perform reverse 
    d) because the purpose of javascript is not to fix problems of CSS
    e) because javascript can be disabled and CSS not (or for test-only).

And stop consider that hacking is for IE only. It's false. Other browsers 
also some inconsitences. Not as much as in IE5/6/7 but they exists, you can
trust me. And when you make your sites "by hand", you encounter theses very

> Gladly IE8b1 does not have this bug.
> -- 
> Alan
> Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's 
> character, give him power - Abraham Lincoln

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Received on Tuesday, 12 August 2008 13:43:55 UTC