- From: Boris Zbarsky <bzbarsky@MIT.EDU>
- Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:14:57 -0500
- To: fantasai <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
- CC: www-style@w3.org
fantasai wrote: > In case you hadn't noticed, publications like books, manuals, and theses > are increasingly on the Web, and the proportion of printouts that are Web > pages is near 50%. ... > Why should their printouts have to either look junky or be offered via PDF? > [X] Allow web pages to use their own headers and footers That's a cop-out. Unless you expect the user to keep flipping that preference. I suspect based on a brief informal survey over here (of people who use computers but are not involved in web stuff) that what most users want is: [X] Allow web pages to use their own headers and footers unless they interfere with the headers and footers I care about; when that happens either ( ) allow their stuff to add to my stuff or ( ) use my stuff This should furthermore be the default for the UA, and the decision between those two either-or options should happen automatically. That is, users shouldn't need to think about this stuff; it should Just Work. One problem, of course, is that different users care about different headers/footers. Some people want to make sure that the URL and timestamp are on all their printouts (so they can come back to the page and have evidence for when they printed it), while others may not care. And some may want the url/timestamp on one-page printouts, but not on a book (which has other identifying information, like author/title/copyright year/ISBN). Frankly, for a book a PDF may in fact be a better solution. At least if you remotely care about things like your typography, where the floats end up relative to the text, etc, etc. And I don't see a problem with that. Of course you can give the site full control over fonts in CSS (including font embedding), full control over pagination, float positioning, headers and footers, copy/paste, etc. But then you're reinventing PDF, and I have to wonder why. > Good information design maximizes the [useful] data-to-ink ratio. Yes. Our problem is that we seem to have different definitions of "useful". > A crufty half-missing URL that nobody will ever type into their web browser is not > useful data. Yes, but not all URLs are like that. From what I can see we're having a hard time coming up with a nuanced solution here. Everyone is making some assumptions about what the "common" case is, whereas I think there is no one common case here. > If the date of modification is available, the date of printing is hardly ever useful data. That first is a huge if. I'll take the date of modification over the date of printing any day, myself. But I can see situations where the date of printing is in fact more useful. It captures the fact that on that date a later modification had not yet happened, which the modification date does not capture. Perhaps the right approach is to have metadata for the things the page considers important, and metadata hints for the things it feels would not be useful to the user. Then the UA can do something like: 1) Take set of all available metadata elements 2) Drop the ones the user considers unimportant 3) Drop the ones the page has hinted are not useful 4) Add back the ones the page considers important 5) Add back the ones the user considers important 6) Drop the ones the user really never wants to see no matter what the page says. That leaves the question of placing the resulting information in the headers and footers; I'm not sure I have a good proposal at the moment for how to do this in a sane way that would make both the user and the author usually happy and never make the user unhappy. -Boris
Received on Friday, 2 November 2007 20:15:23 UTC