- From: Brad Kemper <brkemper@comcast.net>
- Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:22:19 -0800
- To: Philippe Wittenbergh <jk7r-obt@asahi-net.or.jp>
- Cc: "Paul Nelson (ATC)" <paulnel@winse.microsoft.com>, www-style <www-style@w3.org>
On Dec 20, 2007, at 5:18 PM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote: > > > On Dec 21, 2007, at 7:51 AM, Paul Nelson (ATC) wrote: > >> I would argue that defaulting a page that has no DOCTYPE to be >> standards compliant may not be the best option. There are many >> legacy pages out there that would break. If a person sets the >> DOCTYPE then that should be honored...and may still break some pages. > > No one is arguing this, I think. > > What (other) rendering engines have been doing for years: > <http://gutfeldt.ch/matthias/articles/doctypeswitch.html> > <http://gutfeldt.ch/matthias/articles/doctypeswitch/table.html> > <http://hsivonen.iki.fi/doctype/> > > Philippe > The problem is that IE6 and IE7 both have a "standards mode" already that is based on the doctype. And there are still tons of people who won't let go of IE6 because of all their legacy corporate browser- based applications that break when bugs are taken away. So if I design a page with a 4.01 doctype, I get one kind of rendering in IE6, another in IE7, and the more predicable kind in other browsers (and hopefully in IE8's standards mode). But I still need a way to differentiate between IE7 "standards mode" and IE8 standards mode so that the code I wrote to deal with IE7's bugs does not get triggered in IE8. A 4.01 doctype is not enough. An HTML5 doctype triggering true standards would be nice (especially if IE8 supported all of HTML5), but I do not want to have to convert all my pages to HTML5 before I can start putting IE6-7 bugs (which would presumably continue to exist in IE8's backwards compatibility mode) behind me. I would like to see something that could be added to a CSS file that would allow me to specify code for IE6-7 that the standards-based browsers (including IE8) wouldn't see, or that would allow standards- based browsers to see code that IE6-7 wouldn't see. Perhaps if all other browsers are supporting media queries by the time IE8 is released, then we could put all of our standards-based CSS inside a media query with a minimum screen width of 1px, and if IE8 saw that then it would render everything inside based on standards. Or perhaps there could be a rule like this: HTML { standards:true; } ...which would tell IE8 to switch to standards mode, and not render anything in an IE6-7 buggy way. That way corporate intranet applications would continue to render the old way without being rewritten, but more standards-oriented authors could lose all that baggage (and just use existing hacks to accommodate IE6-7 while they are still around). Ideally a standards:true would even work in documents with no doctype or with a 3.2 doctype, to get rid of the horrible rendering problems of IE quirks mode, since quirks mode is not so bad (even useful) in non-IE browsers.
Received on Friday, 21 December 2007 17:27:01 UTC