- From: Brad Kemper <brkemper@comcast.net>
- Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:22:19 -0800
- To: Philippe Wittenbergh <jk7r-obt@asahi-net.or.jp>
- Cc: "Paul Nelson (ATC)" <paulnel@winse.microsoft.com>, www-style <www-style@w3.org>
On Dec 20, 2007, at 5:18 PM, Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 21, 2007, at 7:51 AM, Paul Nelson (ATC) wrote:
>
>> I would argue that defaulting a page that has no DOCTYPE to be
>> standards compliant may not be the best option. There are many
>> legacy pages out there that would break. If a person sets the
>> DOCTYPE then that should be honored...and may still break some pages.
>
> No one is arguing this, I think.
>
> What (other) rendering engines have been doing for years:
> <http://gutfeldt.ch/matthias/articles/doctypeswitch.html>
> <http://gutfeldt.ch/matthias/articles/doctypeswitch/table.html>
> <http://hsivonen.iki.fi/doctype/>
>
> Philippe
>
The problem is that IE6 and IE7 both have a "standards mode" already
that is based on the doctype. And there are still tons of people who
won't let go of IE6 because of all their legacy corporate browser-
based applications that break when bugs are taken away. So if I
design a page with a 4.01 doctype, I get one kind of rendering in
IE6, another in IE7, and the more predicable kind in other browsers
(and hopefully in IE8's standards mode). But I still need a way to
differentiate between IE7 "standards mode" and IE8 standards mode so
that the code I wrote to deal with IE7's bugs does not get triggered
in IE8. A 4.01 doctype is not enough. An HTML5 doctype triggering
true standards would be nice (especially if IE8 supported all of
HTML5), but I do not want to have to convert all my pages to HTML5
before I can start putting IE6-7 bugs (which would presumably
continue to exist in IE8's backwards compatibility mode) behind me.
I would like to see something that could be added to a CSS file that
would allow me to specify code for IE6-7 that the standards-based
browsers (including IE8) wouldn't see, or that would allow standards-
based browsers to see code that IE6-7 wouldn't see.
Perhaps if all other browsers are supporting media queries by the
time IE8 is released, then we could put all of our standards-based
CSS inside a media query with a minimum screen width of 1px, and if
IE8 saw that then it would render everything inside based on standards.
Or perhaps there could be a rule like this:
HTML { standards:true; }
...which would tell IE8 to switch to standards mode, and not render
anything in an IE6-7 buggy way. That way corporate intranet
applications would continue to render the old way without being
rewritten, but more standards-oriented authors could lose all that
baggage (and just use existing hacks to accommodate IE6-7 while they
are still around).
Ideally a standards:true would even work in documents with no doctype
or with a 3.2 doctype, to get rid of the horrible rendering problems
of IE quirks mode, since quirks mode is not so bad (even useful) in
non-IE browsers.
Received on Friday, 21 December 2007 17:27:01 UTC