- From: John Lewis <lewi0371@mrs.umn.edu>
- Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 00:41:56 -0600
- To: www-style@w3.org
Ian wrote on Friday, January 3, 2003 at 9:36:44 PM: > On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Shelby Moore wrote: >> If one renders a paragraph by dispersing the characters randomly on >> the screen in random positions, no doubt that is a presentation >> change, but I also argue it is a semantic change because the >> paragraph can not be read any more. It is quite different from >> changing the font of a paragraph. > p { display: none; } > ...makes a paragraph unreadable as well, but it doesn't stop the > (invisible) paragraphs from being paragraphs. > The semantic layer is, according to the diagram of my views on the > matter, a layer below presentation, and the presentation layer > cannot affect the semantic layer. I agree, and here's why: There are at least two types of semantics: those defined by HTML and those defined by authors and readers (i.e., humans). In a variety of ways, CSS can change the meaning of a document--but only to a human. No property in CSS affects the HTML specification; although I'm not familiar with XBL, I've seen no proof that XBL can change the definition of HTML elements either. It's like someone manually typing an undefined element into a text editor; the element has no meaning in HTML, even though it may have meaning to the author. Shelby, I assume you disagree with me; can you change my mind? (Or have I changed yours?) For example... >> If one renders a paragraph by dispersing the characters randomly on >> the screen in random positions, no doubt that is a presentation >> change, but I also argue it is a semantic change because the >> paragraph can not be read any more. It is quite different from >> changing the font of a paragraph. I agree random character dispersion is a semantic change to the person reading the document, but it's not a semantic change to HTML. It's also not a semantic change to a person reading the document without author style sheets, and it's not a semantic change to someone or something interpreting the source of the document. Thus, in the ways that matter to this discussion, it's not a semantic change. -- John
Received on Saturday, 4 January 2003 01:42:17 UTC