- From: Matthew Brealey <webmaster@richinstyle.com>
- Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 13:57:19 +0100
- To: Rowland Shaw <Rowland.Shaw@seagatesoftware.com>
- CC: www-style@w3.org
Rowland Shaw wrote: > > > > Pretty, but it is flawed by the fact you're example was/is using large > fonts > > > on a resolution intended for small fonts... > > > > What? > > Why? > > How do you know? > > Because your UA was assuming a screen resolution of 96dpi, which is used > when the "large fonts" option is selected by the user in the Display > Properties on the windows client. No it's not. See http://richinstyle.com/small.png for a disproof. > AFAIK, UAs rely on the same setting that wysiwyg text editors (eg. Word) use > for computing font sizes, On which subject, Word is broken: see, for example, http://www.freetype.org/docs/glyphs/index.html (section IV, part 4), an excellent document that I recommend reading anyway. > so you'd have to log a bug against them for > displaying 'incorrect' font sizes... Why? What do you think they should use? > So why bother with support for paged media in CSS? My original point was for > the "best for all situations" solution, for which I think points are pretty > useful, > and familiar to a lot of people starting up with webdesign from use ------- Yes. But that doesn't mean good. > > And also, on a point of fact, pixels do translate well to print, since > > they are rescaled (printers, unlike computers, have the required > > information to do the necessary rescaling). > > Well, technically the printer doesn't know that much, it's some nice clever > scaling either by the OS subsystems (Eg: Win GDI, which allows you to > specify canvases in all sorts of measurement units), printer driver or even > the UA (printing to Windows canvas in pixel mode doesn't "auto scale" for > you) Regardless, pixels are perfectly good for printing. They are also ok on screen, which points are not. > > > IMHO, physical sizes should be used for root elements, and relative > sizes > > > (in em or ex) for all the others... > > > I hope not. This is the height of rudeness on the part of the designer - > > by doing this he maximises the problems, causing difficulties reading > > for the greatest number possible. To counter this it would be useful if > > browsers did proper rescaling of fonts (zooms are unsatisfactory): > > Would you like to back that up? > 72pt is 72pt is 6picas is 1 inch is 25.4mm is 2.54cm is... Is an arbitrary number of pixels that doesn't correspond to a real-world value and therefore will look much larger/smaller on one machine compared to another. > Next, you'll be telling me that they are no WISIWYG word processors because > they're all scaled incorrectly... See above. > > user without perfect sight sets font size in browser; e.g., 20px > > user enables 'rescale fonts' option > > > Example: > > rude developer creates page with font size of (say) 9pt. > > Browser rescales font size to 20/16 * 9 * 96/72 = 15px. > > Result: all accessibility problems caused by lazy/rude developers > > disappear, and without the need for an annoying zoom feature (i.e. it's > > automatic) > > I don't follow your argument in your example... It was a digression. > > [Note there could be an 'advanced' dialogue box, where the figures I > > suggest here (default font size, in pixels, of developer's computer (16) > > and ppi value for that computer (96), which represent what most > > developers/WYSIWYG editor makers use, could be changed.] > > Under Win systems: Control panel -> Display properties -> Settings -> Font > size (small = 72 dpi screen res, large = 96dpi screen res) Not the solution; this is merely a remedy to counter rude developers - like the facilities that currently exist to adjust font sizes except more useful. > > In fact, to rebut your suggestion, no size at all should be used for the > > root element, and relative sizes for all others. By using no size for > > the root element, you respect the user's wishes as to size, rather than > > inflicting upon them a size that is smaller than they an read. (BTW, > > please read the page: exes are a BAD idea for font sizes.) > > I forgot percentages (sorry), which is what I would suggest for font sizes, > reserving em and ex for things like padding, margins etc. No, ems are fine. Ems are the same as % on font-size so it makes no difference (although em is less buggy in the browsers to which it can safely be served; i.e. if you are using browser-detection (preferably non-User-Agent-header dependent), it is better to use ems for compatibility). ----------------------------------- Please visit http://RichInStyle.com. Featuring: MySite: customizable styles. AlwaysWork style Browser bug table covering all CSS2 with links to descriptions. Lists of > 1000 browser bugs Websafe Colorizer CSS2, CSS1 and HTML4 tutorials. CSS masterclass CSS2 test suite: 5000++ tests and 300+ test pages.
Received on Thursday, 27 July 2000 08:57:56 UTC