- From: Peter F. Patel-Schneider <pfps@research.bell-labs.com>
- Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:03:47 -0500 (EST)
- To: phayes@ihmc.us
- Cc: herman.ter.horst@philips.com, jjc@hpl.hp.com, hendler@cs.umd.edu, schreiber@swi.psy.uva.nl, connolly@w3.org, sandro@w3.org, www-rdf-comments@w3.org, bwm@hplb.hpl.hp.com
From: pat hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>
Subject: Re: RDF Semantics: corrections
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:37:33 -0600
> >From: pat hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>
> >Subject: Re: RDF Semantics: corrections
> >Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:36:29 -0600
> >
> >[...]
> >
> >
> >> For clarification, my question to you was concerned with the effects
> >> on OWL rather than on RDF as such. I was not meaning to ask your
> >> opinion on the change in a general sense: as indicated, I will take
> >> responsibility for that. I was asking you only to give an opinion on
> >> whether the suggestion made by Herman for a 'protective' modification
> >> to the *text* of the OWL document is indeed sufficient to ensure that
> >> the RDF and OWL specs, with these changes, will still be compatible.
> >> The intention is that this will make no change to OWL itself.
> >
> >Well, you are really asking for us to approve both the change to RDF and
> >related change to OWL to insulate OWL from the effect of the change to
> >RDF. From what I see about the changes I would vote against both.
>
> No, any changes or otherwise to RDF will be the result of decisions
> made by the RDF WG. What I was really asking your opinion of was the
> insulation device proposed by Herman. There are three options:
>
> 1. do nothing
> 2. this change is made to RDF and a textual edit in OWL insulates OWL from it
> 3. This change is made to RDF and OWL is damaged as a result
>
> I am anxious to avoid 3. I know you prefer 1., but what I was really
> asking you is whether 2 is possible, or whether the choice is between
> 1 and 3. If indeed that is the only possible choice, I will have to
> choose 1. I myself would vastly prefer 2 to 1, and I think that the
> overall design will be better and will be more generally useful with
> 2 rather than 1. So I know you would vote for 1 given your druthers:
> but can you please tell me if, given the choice between 2 and 3,
> whether 2 is even an option?
Well, if I was voting I would vote against 2.
> >[...]
> >
> >> The substantive change is that, as noted above, the class extension
> >> of a datatype name is required to contain only the denotations of
> >> typed literals in the vocabulary, rather than required to *be* the
> >> value space of the datatype. This brings D-interpretations in line
> >> with the way that XML typed literals are treated in the RDF
> >> semantics, which imposes no explicit requirements on
> >> ICEXT(I(rdf:XMLLiteral))
> >>
> >> The only example I am aware of which makes the change visible is this:
> >>
> >> ex:a ex:p "true"^^xsd:boolean .
> >> ex:a ex:p "false"^^xsd:boolean .
> >> ex:c rdf:type xsd:boolean .
> >>
> >> |=?=
> >>
> >> ex:a ex:p ex:c .
> >
> >What about
> >
> >ex:a ex:p "2"^^xsd:short .
> >
> >|=?=
> >
> >ex:a ex:p _:a .
> >_:a rdf:type xsd:int .
> >
> >I think that this is a valid {xsd:short,xsd:int}-entailment in the PR
> >version of RDF but would not be valid under the proposed change.
>
> Hmm. It is hard to tell since the XSD specs seem to be ambiguous
> about whether or not value spaces of distinct datatypes are disjoint
> or not.
In this particular case it is even more clear than in the case of xsd:float
vs xsd:int that the values spaces are not disjoint, as xsd:short is a
restriction of xsd:int, and thus its value space is, by definition, a
subset of the value space of xsd:int.
> My best understanding of the intent of the XSD group (and
> what they were planning to make official in version 2, the last time
> I checked) is that those value spaces should be considered to be
> disjoint in the sense that their members are not identical, but that
> there is a relation called 'equality', distinct from the relation of
> identity, which holds between them. (An alternative account of the
> situation was provided by Henry Thompson, who indicated that the best
> way to think of the elements of these value spaces is as pairs
> consisting of the value plus the datatype: rather like typed
> literals, in fact.) Whether or not this 'equality' is the same as
> owl:sameAs, I leave others to decide. I tend to assume that the
> safest thing for us to do in the semantics is to go with the most
> conservative possibility. As far as the RDFS semantics is concerned,
> therefore, the value spaces of any two different XSD datatypes MAY be
> distinct disjoint sets, so your example is not a valid entailment on
> either the PR or with the proposed change.
I totally disagree. The normative documents for XML Schema are totally
clear, particularly in this case, that the value spaces are not disjoint.
(Note that this is a separate issue from whether a value typed as a short
would validate as an int.)
> It would be valid if you also asserted
>
> xsd:short rdfs:subClassOf xsd:int .
>
> under either semantics.
Well, yes, but so what? For example what about switching xsd:short and
xsd:int above?
> Pat
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Peter F. Patel-Schneider
Bell Labs Research
Received on Tuesday, 13 January 2004 19:09:12 UTC