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Re: Please review RDF Last Call

From: Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 14:41:34 -0500
To: Jeremy Carroll <jjc@hpl.hp.com>
Cc: www-rdf-comments@w3.org, reagle@w3.org, w3c-ietf-xmldsig@w3.org, n-shiraishi@w3.org
Message-ID: <20030212194133.GA23631@w3.org>

On Thu, Jan 30, 2003 at 02:47:34PM +0100, Jeremy Carroll wrote:
> RDF Core coordination:
>    Brian please create an issue "XMLLiteral equality"
>    Brian please create an issue "exc-c14n throughout"
>    Pat, there is also an editorial fix for you, just below.
> ====
> > > ...
> > > RDF Semantics
> > > http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-mt/
> > > #rdfinterp
> > > #dtype_interp

> > As an aside, do you intend to actually "require" a particular
> > QName prefix when it says, "which we will refer to as XSD and use
> > the Qname prefix xsd:.  "?

> I will leave Pat to pick this point up.

> > I'm confused by this because most of the specifications are citing
> > Canonical XML (c14n), not Exclusive Canonicalization (exc-c14n).

> The process is intended to be two-phase:
> The first phase takes an RDF/XML document and constructs an RDF
> graph.  In this phase it is not required to actually canonicalize,
> but it is required to retain all the information needed for
> exc-c14n.

Since identical strings are considered the same object in the RDF
model, it may be worth applying exc-c14n as parseType="Literal"s are
imported into the graph. This would apply if one were using an API to
create XML-encoded nodes.
  graph->createLiteral("<html>...</html>", XMLLiteral)
If it is being parsed (as opposed to provided by an API or translated
from another triples language), the parseType="Literal" data should
already canonicalized. (This eases the burden on such parsers as they
need not perform any canonicalization, though they may choose to for
backword compatibility, as I did for annotea.)

> The second phase, which many RDF applications don't actually ever do
> is from the graph to its formal meaning; for these it concerns the
> meaning of the string delivered by the parser. This second stage is
> determined by the mapping defined in RDF Concepts. This second stage
> uses c14n on the grounds that whatever the parser delivered (which
> is intended as implementation dependent) is then preserved.

I think this assumption limits the responsibility of the RDF engine to
those semantics which are expressed in c14n subset of XML, as opposed
to the string that looks like XML. If one uses an API to create a node
  <!DOCTYPE PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
and wishes to preserve the doctype, the node must be entity-encoded
and stored as CharData. Perhaps some of this text would serve as a
warning in the specification somwhere in the XML Content section [4].

> The semantics doc picks up after the parser has left off, i.e. with
> the RDF graph - at this point we no longer have an XML document to
> refer to, and so we use C14N over the fragment.
> Admittedly, it might be clearer to specify the use of exc-c14n
> throughout - this would work except for nasty cases like XSLT, that
> invisibly use the namespace prefices.
> > I presume that the reason you even care how the xml-literal is
> > represented is that you will want to compare RDF instances (which
> > might contain xml-literals) to see if they are identical at some
> > point? If that's the case, then won't you want the character/octet
> > representation of XML within a RDF representation to be equivalent
> > as well? For example, if you are comparing two RDF blobs for
> > identity, you wouldn't want the two xml-literals to be different
> > because one implementation cared about comments and the other
> > didn't...?
> This is a good point. Brian please assign an issue number.
> Initially the goal of working on XML Literals was simply to get
> visibly used namespaces to work at all. This goal is achieved; but
> for certain applications we have not achieved interoperability.
> > First, again, what purpose is a canonicalization even serving if
> > you are likely to get implementation variances?
> It *is* an improvement on where we used to be!  So, there is quite a
> lot of clarity as to what the contract is, but we have tried to
> remember the more casual implementor.  If an implementor decides
> they only want to partially support these literals, they could
> choose say to always bind the default namespace to xhtml and not
> support any other binding. The string for the literal is then
> essentially a copy straight out of the input document.  Other users
> need the precision that you talk about - which as you point out we
> haven't delivered.
> Hmmm ... I will try and defend the decisions we have made a bit
> more.
> The fundamental problem we are addressing is *how* to repesent XML
> content within an RDF graph. This XML content originates from an
> RDF/XML document, but, that original context gets lost. Thus we face
> a number of problems familiar in exc-c14n, what to do about
> entities?, what to do about visibly used namespaces? what to do with
> namespaces that are present but not visibly used? These issues are
> the pressing ones that are addressed by the Last Call docs. A
> further issue of making sure that two different implementations get
> exactly the same answer was not one that we felt it necessary to
> address.  I will ask the WG to reconsider whether this was correct
> as part of the LC process.

I suspect that the easiest path is to use exc-c14n in the concepts
document per issue reagle-02 [1]. This eliminates reagle-01 [2].

The third issue [3] raised simply requires a clarification.

> > > This behaviour is conformant but not required.
> To the RDF Last Call documents.

> Thanks for your comments, Brian should assign an issue number
> concerning the implementation variability, Pat should follow up on
> the misleading wording about the xsd namespace in semantics.

Implementation experience:

Annotea has to parse and reproduce plain and XML literals. These are
stored in the triple store along with their encoding (PLAIN or
XML). When serializing the product of a graph query (like properties
of things annotating "http://www.w3.org/": ((annotates ?a
http://www.w3.org/)(?p ?a ?o))), it entity-encodes PLAIN literals and
wraps XML encoded ones in a parseType="Literal".
  <r:Description r:about="foo"><p1>some data</p1></r:Description>
  <r:Description r:about="foo"><p1 parseType="Literal">some data</p1></r:Description>
do not refer to the same object as the encoding is a key in the
Literals table.

[1] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#reagle-02
[2] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#reagle-01
[3] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/20030123-issues/#reagle-03
[4] http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-rdf-concepts-20030123/#section-XMLLiteral

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Received on Wednesday, 12 February 2003 14:41:46 UTC

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