- From: Mark Skall <mark.skall@nist.gov>
- Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:08:51 -0500
- To: www-qa-wg@w3.org
- Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20040223140543.03d1be60@mailserver.nist.gov>
QA Working Group Teleconference Monday, 23-February-2004 -- Scribe: Mark Skall Attendees: (DH) Dominique Hazaël-Massieux (W3C) (LH) Lofton Henderson (CGMO - WG co-chair) (LR) Lynne Rosenthal (NIST - IG co-chair) (MS) Mark Skall (NIST) (KD) Karl Dubost (W3C, WG co-chair) (PC) Patrick Curran (Sun Microsystems) Regrets: (SM) Sandra Martinez (NIST) (dd) Dimitris Dimitriadis (Ontologicon) (MC) Martin Chamberlain (Microsoft) (AT) Andrew Thackrah (Open Group) (DM) David Marston Absent: (VV) Vanitha Venkatraman (Sun Microsystems) Summary of New Action Items: AI-20040223-1 LH will ask Jeremy for more detail on CR-41 (various violations of process and pub rules) by Feb. 25. Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-qa-wg/2004Feb/0061.html Previous Telcon Minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-qa-wg/2004Feb/0062.html Minutes: 1.) Roll call 11am EDT, membership 2.) Routine business - (June) F2F venue needed (constraints). LH Looking for a host for June ff. Due to be in North America, preferably out of the US. We will discuss this at the f2f mtg in Nice. Check with company and see what you can offer. - TestGL SoTD point to TestGL (raw) issues? LH Should TestGL point to raw issues list of TestGL? PC Not necessary. DH Should link to issues list. LH We will plan to do that. LH Abstract restricts document to conformance test materials. Is this right? PC Yes, but we’re struggling with it. LH “Usable and useful” doesn’t have to be conformance test materials. LH Should take conformance out of abstract. MS Does this have to do with interoperability testing vs. conformance testing? 3.) Confirm WCAG answers LH We should get a consensus reply to WCAG rather than my opinions. LH and DH agree with replies. No dissenting opinion. Will tell Olivier that these are consensus answers. 4.) QAF CR issues LH We now have 58 issues queued, including a dozen major conceptual issues. Will queue all the specific issues. Reference 2 provides an overview of major issues. Today we will try to get owners for more of the issues to generate initial proposals for issues and to preview a summary of discussions that QA Chairs have been having. QA Chairs are proposing a plan for QA framework. Reference 4 is a summary of that proposal. We’d like to look at it today so that we can discuss it at f2f next week. KD Keep in mind that it’s important to continue the work, but not necessarily the same work. Should make QA more acceptable by W3C at every level. Need more participation. QA framework may be a bit different. People need to be more creative. What would you like to have to do QA in your WG? Try to create ways to not make it a burden LH Will characterize major issues. Got some positive feedback from some groups like WAI, but got a lot of indifference or hostility. Most of feedback is coming from Web Ontology and Jeremy Carroll. Web Ontology is trying to apply OPS Guidelines to their work. LH First point is that framework family is perceived as too big and too expensive, inconsistent and incomplete and too much of a burden on WGs. Web Ontology says they have developed “useful” conformance test materials (that they think is useful). They feel that our documents should not constrain WGs. They suggest that these should not be mandatory. Ops Guidelines and Intro should be rolled together into a primer. They feel “must” is way overused. LH Jeremy Carroll’s major conceptual issues He says we are violating a W3M mandate constraining WGs in Rec track documents. QA framework is just test development framework, not QA framework. QAWG has failed to meet quality commitments we made in charter for AAA conformance. Documents should be informative. All parts of QA framework must advance synchronously. LH Will ask Jeremy for more detail on CR-41 (various violations of process and pub rules) by Feb. 25. LH Reference 4 is an unendorsed proposal as to how to handle these critical challenges. MS How has W3M reacted to this criticism? DH We need to decide future. We can then tell W3M how we intend to proceed. LH We’re looking at a precursor of the document we would submit to W3M try to achieve consensus on this next week. LH Summary of proposal. Looked at a range of possibilities from stopping to full speed ahead converged on the following: Don’t progress OpsGL as separate normative parts, but take best parts and combine them into a user friendly QA handbook. Simplify spec components and progress SpecGL as normative GL. Progress TestGL in background commensurate with resources. KD has made proposal to restructure documents and provide informational materials with each area/topic. MS Are these criticisms the norm or are these people just more outspoken? Do most people, who have said nothing, agree with the way we were going? Shouldn’t we get the feel of W3C in Tech plenary? LR Some of these proposals we agree with in any case and are not just responses to criticism. MS Should separate proposal to 2 parts things we agree with anyway and things that are response to criticism. We should try to find out if criticisms are shared with inside W3C. LH We will discuss strategy next week. Adjourn at 1205. **************************************************************** Mark Skall Chief, Software Diagnostics and Conformance Testing Division Information Technology Laboratory National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) 100 Bureau Drive, Stop 8970 Gaithersburg, MD 20899-8970 Voice: 301-975-3262 Fax: 301-590-9174 Email: skall@nist.gov ****************************************************************
Received on Monday, 23 February 2004 14:09:23 UTC